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A friend recently picked this up for me: an Elkhorn ("a division of Getzen") sousaphone. I noticed the nickel silver outer slides and thought it might be European, and hornucopia says it was made by "Amborg in Germany," but it looks like Amborg was actually Italian. My guess was B&M.

17mm bore. Busted lower mouthpipe and a bunch of dents but all slides move and valves aren't too bad once they got cleaned up a bit.

I think I've only encountered one of these, and I couldn't repair it because it was missing a valve or two. It was a long time ago.

I’d make a vote for B&M.

They were contracted to make the York Master line (I think for Carl Fischer, who bought York). The ferrules on your sousaphone have the “waist”. Those were a York thing way back in the day. I’ve seen them on some smaller student line York Master tubas (not the larger one patterned on the York 712). Reference: YM Eb listed on Facebook and listed here in the off site deals page.

Elkhorn division of Getzen? I’ve got no answer to that.

I haven't seen many B&M instruments from that era which didn't feature top valve caps which had felt Donuts like King. This one does not have that. I'm thinking there were some Getzen/Elkhorn single F and compensating double horns that were imported from Italy.

I'm going to be the outlier here, and guess "some unknown Italian maker", and perhaps the same one that made those horns.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:07 pm I haven't seen many B&M instruments from that era which didn't feature top valve caps which had felt Donuts like King. This one does not have that. I'm thinking there were some Getzen/Elkhorn single F and compensating double horns that were imported from Italy.

I'm going to be the outlier here, and guess "some unknown Italian maker", and perhaps the same one that made those horns.

I think you are right. I did a bit of digging and "Amborg" seems to have been an Italian maker, despite what horn-u-copia said.

It definitely has the skinny profile of an Italian instrument, and it is goofy in other ways. There is no real tenon on the bell, and you instead insert the bell throat into the collar. I was like "There is no way that can be right!" but there are grooves on the outside of the throat where the screws sit. The bell screws themselves are very large and decorative and remind me of other Italian sousaphones I've seen.

Methinks this might be a parts/harvest horn and not a fix-up horn...

arpthark wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 7:16 am
It definitely has the skinny profile of an Italian instrument, and it is goofy in other ways. There is no real tenon on the bell, and you instead insert the bell throat into the collar. I was like "There is no way that can be right!" but there are grooves on the outside of the throat where the screws sit. The bell screws themselves are very large and decorative and remind me of other Italian sousaphones I've seen.

I briefly had an Orsi Eb sousaphone that made me think that it was designed by someone who had a sousaphone described to them but never actually saw one in person. I think it is a theme with Italian sousas.

Yes. Most interesting thing I have come across in the Italian sousaphone regard is one marked "Crown" or some such that had this very intricate adjustable mouthpipe brace with a slot and screws that allowed you to adjust the angle of the lower mouthpipe. A bit overengineered and goofy.

I have a 14K lower mouthpipe that I can kind of get to fit this thing, so I at least want to hear what it sounds like before I part it out.

If it can be made to be playable, people will buy a playable sousaphone, and they don't care (unless they're some doofus like me) if it's Italian. I'm guessing you're only parting these out because they're not playable. If this one's only missing the lower mouthpipe, you can surely do something about that.

You might not want to shell out the money for a 20K lower mouthpipe, but what about cobbling one together out of a couple of slide bows, sticking a Conn receiver on top, bracing it up, and then buying a JP mouthpipe and bits?

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:25 am If it can be made to be playable, people will buy a playable sousaphone, and they don't care (unless they're some doofus like me) if it's Italian. I'm guessing you're only parting these out because they're not playable. If this one's only missing the lower mouthpipe, you can surely do something about that.

You might not want to shell out the money for a 20K lower mouthpipe, but what about cobbling one together out of a couple of slide bows, sticking a Conn receiver on top, bracing it up, and then buying a JP mouthpipe and bits?

Well, I am a 'fesshnul now (just filled out a W9 for a school to prove it), so I could probably do something like that.

I have a 14K lower mouthpipe and receiver, most of a Conn neck, and a couple of old Conn bits, to boot. Once I get to a point where I have more tinkering time, I'll take a closer look at what I can do with it.

I just don't know if a 14k lower mouthpipe would fit around that first valve slide tube like a 20K one would. If it does, all power to you.

I ALSO have a filthy black-and-won't-polish-up "Elkhorn" mouthpiece to include with this instrument, if anyone wants it...!

Isn't there some aluminum foil trick with super tarnished silver?

B&M sousa braces and thumb ring are similar. What that means? Don’t know…

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:57 pm B&M sousa braces and thumb ring are similar. What that means? Don’t know…

That's a pretty damn convincing picture that my guess is wrong.

I can just confirm that Amborg was an italian maker; the factory was located about 5 miles from where I live, and they used to make a line of instruments commonly used in the "italian style" band ( the whole range of flicorni from the small Eb flicornino down to the basso) and if I remember right they had a small bore - skinny sousaphone.