TubaForum.net

Holy smokes!

is that thing painted brass, fiber glass or carbon fiber? I couldn’t tell on my small screen.

I went looking to see if there was any info online, but a quick search didn’t reveal anything about that sousaphone. I did learn the tuba player is also the tubist in the Munich State Opera, the German Brass was started in 1974 - there was a tussle over who owned the name with one of the trombone players a few years back (there should be a reality show about music group drama - I’ve yet to be in where there wasn’t near constant drama) - trombone player was subsequently tossed out of the group and last but not least —> Germany has made the Tuba the instrument of the year in 2024. go figure

At the risk of appearing to attempt to misdirect a thread about a German playing a sousaphone and sounding wonderful doing it, King American-made sousaphones offer really good intonation and a really focused sound. I've used one in a symphonic application with other brass players who are capable of precise intonation. It was only the Star-Spangled Banner, but it was indoors in a concert hall at the opening concert of the year (where that's traditionally done with orchestras in America). It sounded great. Good sousaphones are good things.

fallacies:
- the best sousaphones are not as easy to play in tune as the best tubas
- sousaphones made out of materials other than brass don't sound good, yet somehow tubas made out of materials other than brass can sound good

A King sousaphone with professional length #1 and #3 circuits, a fourth valve, and an adjustable #1 slide would be quite a thing, particularly where it made to 1960s and earlier American manufacturing standards... and fiberglass would be just fine.

My gut tells me the audio we heard is not actual live audio, given the lack of precisely placed microphones, equipment for sound isolation, and the desire for televised productions to avoid any kind of audio issues whenever possible. That recording was perfectly balanced and mixed. I'm sure they played it live, maybe with the recording playing in an earpiece for synchronization, and it probably sounded great. As such I'm betting the audio we heard wasn't actually made with a sousaphone (which makes a nice component for TV and stage work).

I agree with Bloke though - a good King as he described could find a place even in my stable of horns.

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:31 am My gut tells me the audio we heard is not actual live audio, given the lack of precisely placed microphones, equipment for sound isolation, and the desire for televised productions to avoid any kind of audio issues whenever possible. That recording was perfectly balanced and mixed. I'm sure they played it live, maybe with the recording playing in an earpiece for synchronization, and it probably sounded great. As such I'm betting the audio we heard wasn't actually made with a sousaphone (which makes a nice component for TV and stage work).

I agree with Bloke though - a good King as he described could find a place even in my stable of horns.

...as with those amazing audio tracks of oriental youth bands/orchestras, whereby 14-17-year-olds sound like professionals in their "live-and-heck-yeah-it's-actually-them" recordings, and (on the field) when their marching bands turn and face the opposite direction, the audio tracks continue to sound like carefully-balanced studio recordings. (videos which were uploaded to facebook mostly several years ago...for those of you who remember encountering them)

I would stretch out much farther and state (ie. beyond "suggest") that the overwhelming majority of "classical" music videos we see today were recorded...
- audio first, HEAVILY edited
- video second, and played along with the recorded audio, but (of course) only the pre-recorded/heavily-edited audio track heard on the final video

telltale: the audio tracks do not "sound like" the rooms/venues shown in the videos
ie. Every college horn professor now plays better than Dennis Brain, every college violin player now plays better than Jascha Heifetz, etc., etc...

sidebar (which risks appearing "It's all about me")
Years ago, I sent in a recording to a university (which ended up hiring me to teach their tuba students) with a few examples of my playing. The only non-live thing that I added was me playing a multi-movement oboe piece (along with an old "Music Minus One" accompaniment...which had to be digitally tuned, because it was not quite at pitch). I did not edit my solo playing (I suppose you'll just have to trust me - or not - on that), but - again - only fixed the pitch on the old analog accompaniment.
After playing a few of those same pieces "live" for a couple of the brass teachers and the chairman, they remarked, "We notice that you neither submitted nor played for us any solo works written for tuba" to which I responded "That's an acute observation; I don't actually like any tuba solo works." Yes, they laughed.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:04 am I would stretch out much farther and state (ie. beyond "suggest") that the overwhelming majority of "classical" music videos we see today were recorded...
- audio first, HEAVILY edited
- video second, and played along with the recorded audio, but (of course) only the pre-recorded/heavily-edited audio track heard on the final video

This is especially true of multitrack videos. Even Jacob Collier does the video takes separately, and if there's anyone in the world who can film the actual audio takes, it's him. The reason why has nothing to do with not being able to do it all at once - it's all about time efficiency. It ends up being MUCH more efficient to record all the audio and then do full-run video takes of each part.

For actual ensembles, all in the same room, my opinion depends on the context. If it's just a music video for an obviously produced track (such as from an album), of course the video isn't going to be the actual track. There are notable exceptions of course, like all the Snarky Puppy live albums such as We Like It Here, but for the most part everyone knows that music videos are separate from the audio.

What is unforgivable, to me, is an artist or ensemble uploading a concert performance under the implication that it's live audio (either through explicitly calling it "live" or just from a situation where there is a live audience and no present recording equipment, such as that German Brass video), when the audio is not. Especially when that audio is PAINFULLY autotuned and compressed past all recognizability, which is sadly all too common amongst Internet brass playing content.

That sousaphonologist can’t be any good. No 5th valve.

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:17 am That sousaphonologist can’t be any good. No 5th valve.

The black color makes up for it, or didn't you know that?

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:21 am The black color makes up for it, or didn't you know that?

This made me think of Scriabin's system of colored musical keys:
C# -- Purple
F# -- Bright Blue/Violet
B -- Blue
E -- Sky Blue
A -- Green
D -- Yellow
G -- Orange
C -- Red
F -- Deep Red
Bb -- Rose/Steel
Eb -- Flesh
Ab -- Violet

I am trying to imagine showing up at a gig with at least a half a dozen or so different colored sousaphones, hoping there are no Stan Kenton arrangements where I have to make a quick horn change every sixteen bars.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:21 am

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:17 am That sousaphonologist can’t be any good. No 5th valve.

The black color makes up for it, or didn't you know that?

Like Johnny used to say, “I did not know that. That is some weird, wild stuff.”

MikeS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:47 am

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:21 am The black color makes up for it, or didn't you know that?

This made me think of Scriabin's system of colored musical keys:
C# -- Purple
F# -- Bright Blue/Violet
B -- Blue
E -- Sky Blue
A -- Green
D -- Yellow
G -- Orange
C -- Red
F -- Deep Red
Bb -- Rose/Steel
Eb -- Flesh
Ab -- Violet

I am trying to imagine showing up at a gig with at least a half a dozen or so different colored sousaphones, hoping there are no Stan Kenton arrangements where I have to make a quick horn change every sixteen bars.

The Trix Serial System went even farther - describing each color with a fruit adjective.
The system broke down - though - when they got to orange, and had to describe it as "orange-orange".

' silly rabbit...

tofu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:43 pm...there was a tussle over who owned the name...

It's interesting that the name of the group, German Brass, is in English.