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Title says it all. I’ve decided that the only way I’m going to get a gig bag that fits my Kanstul 902-3B correctly is to have one custom made. A Messina or a Cronkhite would be approximately the same money. Which would you choose, and why? Especially valuable would be opinions of folks who have experience with both.

I have experience with both, but only from back when Glenn was still making the bags. Does the current iteration of Cronkhite really do custom-fit work, or do they just have several templates that are just close enough? I am still a little murky on that.

Overall, both are good, but the quality of Glenn Cronkhite-era bags seemed just a bit higher than the Messina bags. The foam seemed to be denser and of higher quality. The backpack straps on the Messina bags are slick seatbelt material which slid around on my shoulders a bit, even with the strap pads. Little details and fit and finish things (velcro handle strap on Messina vs the snap design on Cronkhite) put Cronkhite just a bit ahead, to me. The integrated music pouch on Messina was just a little too narrow for my group's big black leather music folder, and the orientation of the zipper was on the short side instead of the long side of the pouch. I would put Messina at like 85-90% as good as a Glenn Cronkhite bag. If current Cronkhite is as good as Glenn's operation, if I could go back to when I first got my Eastman, I'd have bought a Cronkhite bag for it instead. Just my opinion.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:12 am I have experience with both, but only from back when Glenn was still making the bags. Does the current iteration of Cronkhite really do custom-fit work, or do they just have several templates that are just close enough? I am still a little murky on that.

Overall, both are good, but the quality of Glenn Cronkhite-era bags seemed just a bit higher than the Messina bags. The foam seemed to be denser and of higher quality. The backpack straps on the Messina bags are slick seatbelt material which slid around on my shoulders a bit, even with the strap pads. Little details and fit and finish things (velcro handle strap on Messina vs the snap design on Cronkhite) put Cronkhite just a bit ahead, to me. The integrated music pouch on Messina was just a little too narrow for my group's big black leather music folder, and the orientation of the zipper was on the short side instead of the long side of the pouch. I would put Messina at like 85-90% as good as a Glenn Cronkhite bag. If current Cronkhite is as good as Glenn's operation, if I could go back to when I first got my Eastman, I'd have bought a Cronkhite bag for it instead. Just my opinion.

Even though Glenn doesn’t make the bags himself anymore, their web site goes to great lengths to pay him tribute and extol his legacy. He apparently still serves as an “advisor” and the guy who runs the company now was hand picked by Glenn as his successor, according to Glenn himself. So I would have to make an educated guess that the quality of the bags are still just as high.

I like that the Cronkhite bags have real leather trim. No leather on Messina. But I was curious if Messina had other features I was unaware of that would make them preferable.

It is true that Cronkhite has a lot of patterns on file. Either 80 or 90 different patterns (web site mentions both figures). But my horn is not on their list. So I have been in contact with them and they want me to fill out their measurement sheet. Will this result in a custom made case, or will they look at the measurements and pick out the standard pattern that comes the closest? I can’t say one way or the other. Messina doesn’t seem to have any patterns. All cases seem to be custom. They make you measure and you have to send them a tracing.

I said the two brands were the same money. Technically though, Cronkhite is more expensive. But if you order through their web site you get 20 percent off the regular price. That means Cronkhite is 579 versus 595 for Messina.

For Messina, I mentioned I had an Eastman 832 and they said they had the pattern on file for it. But Messina was providing Eastman-branded bags for a time so that may be why.

I purchased a brand new Cronkhite for my weirdly huge F tuba because, like you, I had very few, if any other options.

Quality is great. Fit is great, but my model WAS specifically listed in their dropdown menu.

I also have an older Cronkhite for my 2165 of similar quality. I don’t think they’ve cut any corners.

It did, however, take some time to get here. 4 months maybe? I don’t remember exactly.

You’ll pay for it, but imo there isn’t a better bag than the Cronkhite.

Not to pile on, but, yeah, Cronkhite. The name Messina Covers kinda says it.

After Messina wanted me to trace my instrument when they admittedly already had a pattern for one, I decided to just deal with the strap location problem on a Mph bag and bought one for half the price.

Both are quality bags. The Cronkhite for my JP377 fits like a glove, but it's the Besson 982 pattern in the drop-down menu. The Messina bags have a little free space in the top corners. Two of the guys I've played with for years have their bags and are happy with them. I like the extra zipper pocket in the back and the included accessory pouch and removable music pouch on the Cronkhite, not something the Messinas have (as far as I know). I like the Messina backpack straps better. Padding is about equal.

Unless you get a premade bag, Cronkhite is slow, but you get excellent quality. Messina is quicker, and their quality is very good. Both have good selections in colors. Cronkhite can make heavy, protective leather bags for a good bit more money than the cordura bags. I don't know if Messina produces leather bags at all, they may, but I've not looked it up as I was only interested in Cordura.

And, of course, your mileage may vary.

I own Cronkhite bags. I don’t own Messina, but I’ve seen several and did consider them for my last bag. I believe you will get a better fit with Cronkhite. I believe it is a better made bag, but the Messina is constructed pretty well. I believe the Cronkhite is a better level of material and the attachment points are pretty much bullet proof. Last thing you want is a failure and tuba slamming into the ground.

I’ve even got a leather one from the mid 80’s and after 40 years it is honestly like new, but for some light surface wear on the bottom from floors. The straps are like new and that thing has seen some serious use over the years from both my big Besson and my 185. The placement on the back for me is way better than the Messina and they just look better. If you are going to be walking a lot with horn on your back I would really try to see if you can find ones to try with each on your back to see how easy it is to get on and off and importantly how does it fit on the back. Nothing worse than a bag that hits you in the back of the knees as you walk.

PS One last thing —>you can get 25% off on your first order. If I recall I think you have to join the email list. I’m sure someone here will know for sure.

When people call bags "cases", isn't that a way to assist oneself in charging a case price for a bag?

tofu wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:41 pm I own Cronkhite bags. I don’t own Messina, but I’ve seen several and did consider them for my last bag. I believe you will get a better fit with Cronkhite. I believe it is a better made bag, but the Messina is constructed pretty well. I believe the Cronkhite is a better level of material and the attachment points are pretty much bullet proof. Last thing you want is a failure and tuba slamming into the ground.

I’ve even got a leather one from the mid 80’s and after 40 years it is honestly like new, but for some light surface wear on the bottom from floors. The straps are like new and that thing has seen some serious use over the years from both my big Besson and my 185. The placement on the back for me is way better than the Messina and they just look better. If you are going to be walking a lot with horn on your back I would really try to see if you can find ones to try with each on your back to see how easy it is to get on and off and importantly how does it fit on the back. Nothing worse than a bag that hits you in the back of the knees as you walk.

PS One last thing —>you can get 25% off on your first order. If I recall I think you have to join the email list. I’m sure someone here will know for sure.

Yeah. Seems like they’ve run that 25% thing for a while. It really helped get that cost down. I used it for my green cordura F tuba bag. If you’re feeling really good, go for the all leather bag and save even more $$ off the huge price tag!

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:12 am Does the current iteration of Cronkhite really do custom-fit work, or do they just have several templates that are just close enough? I am still a little murky on that.

I believe if you order by model, you will get a bag that is "close enough" but not a precise fit. I suspect if you provided them specific measurements, you would get that bag but it would take a lot longer to be produced. They are built well, though, and there is (to me) no discernible difference between the current bag quality and the "Glenn-era" bag quality. I've never owned a Messina bag, but, every one I have been hands-on with has always felt thin and cheap compared to the current Cronkhite. I own a couple of their 4-mouthpiece pouches, which are well made, but, I'll never buy one of their bags. My next bag will either be a Gotz or some other European-based product because I GREATLY prefer top loaders and because Superfine isn't in business any more - they built the best quality bag I've ever owned, hands down.

So for me, the answer is Cronkhite.

I can order you a Goetz Supersac for the Kanstul if you'd like. Send me an email for more details; chite AT buddyrogers DOT com.

DonO. wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 7:55 am Title says it all. I’ve decided that the only way I’m going to get a gig bag that fits my Kanstul 902-3B correctly is to have one custom made. A Messina or a Cronkhite would be approximately the same money. Which would you choose, and why? Especially valuable would be opinions of folks who have experience with both.

I’m in the process of getting a bag from Cronkhite for my Willson 3400S-FA5 (their compact Eb). As in your case they didn’t have a pattern for it, so I made all their measurements and sent them in. They replied saying the dimensions were really close to a Kanstul 902/5C, which fits in the bag made for a Conn 52J. They also said it would be a little quicker if I went with an existing pattern. Still 90 day lead time tho.

They sent me the Kanstul measurements and they are pretty close, so I’ve gone that route. They did just send me an email checking two of my measurements as they are just about to cut the material, so they are looking at them, even though we settled on the 52J bag.

Decided to go with the Cronkhite since the padding us a little thicker - 1” vs 3/4”. Picked cordura instead of leather to save a little weight.

I did look at several pre-made bags first and it looked like my horn would really swim in all of them, so ended up in the same spot you seem to be in.

Anyway I should know in a month or so how it actually fits.

Eric

TxTx wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 12:12 am

DonO. wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 7:55 am Title says it all. I’ve decided that the only way I’m going to get a gig bag that fits my Kanstul 902-3B correctly is to have one custom made. A Messina or a Cronkhite would be approximately the same money. Which would you choose, and why? Especially valuable would be opinions of folks who have experience with both.

I’m in the process of getting a bag from Cronkhite for my Willson 3400S-FA5 (their compact Eb). As in your case they didn’t have a pattern for it, so I made all their measurements and sent them in. They replied saying the dimensions were really close to a Kanstul 902/5C, which fits in the bag made for a Conn 52J. They also said it would be a little quicker if I went with an existing pattern. Still 90 day lead time tho.

They sent me the Kanstul measurements and they are pretty close, so I’ve gone that route. They did just send me an email checking two of my measurements as they are just about to cut the material, so they are looking at them, even though we settled on the 52J bag.

Decided to go with the Cronkhite since the padding us a little thicker - 1” vs 3/4”. Picked cordura instead of leather to save a little weight.

I did look at several pre-made bags first and it looked like my horn would really swim in all of them, so ended up in the same spot you seem to be in.

Anyway I should know in a month or so how it actually fits.

Eric

When it arrives, please let us know about the fit.

I think what's really frustrating to people who try to cater to tuba players (with bags that come closer to fitting nicely) is that there are so many shapes and sizes, and every time they go to the trouble to create another pattern, that pattern is not ordered again soon, but yet another size that they've never made before is requested by the next, next, and next customers.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:36 am I think what's really frustrating to people who try to cater to tuba players (with bags that come closer to fitting nicely) is that there are so many shapes and sizes, and every time they go to the trouble to create another pattern, that pattern is not ordered again soon, but yet another size that they've never made before is requested by the next, next, and next customers.

It seems like at Cronkhite specifically, if your model is not on their menu, you submit your measurements. But that doesn’t mean you get a custom made case. They take the measurements and compare them with patterns they have on file. They try to find one that’s close enough. Then, they tell you which one is the match and that’s the one you pick from their drop down menu. They would rather not have to come up with a pattern from scratch. I suppose out of so many patterns, there probably is one that’s close, but we’ll see. I submitted my measurements and I am waiting for a response.

Glenn had an awful lot of patterns. There are quite a few tubas that fit quite nicely and snugly in each other's Cronkhite manufactured bags. I acquired every one of my bags used, and they all fit the particular instruments for which I purchased them very nicely, though they weren't specified as fitting the models that I own. I don't use my Cronkhite bags anymore, but I'm not selling them.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:34 am Glenn had an awful lot of patterns. There are quite a few tubas that fit quite nicely and snugly in each other's Cronkhite manufactured bags. I acquired every one of my bags used, and they all fit the particular instruments for which I purchased them very nicely, though they weren't specified as fitting the models that I own. I don't use my Cronkhite bags anymore, but I'm not selling them.

And I don't believe Torpedo is using ALL of his patterns, just the ones that cover the spectrum sufficiently. I would suspect there was some sort of conversion process from what Glenn had to what Torpedo needs for their process. It's not a knock on them, they are excellent bags, but I suspect they have thinned the herd a bit from what they acquired from Glenn.

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 12:15 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:34 am Glenn had an awful lot of patterns. There are quite a few tubas that fit quite nicely and snugly in each other's Cronkhite manufactured bags. I acquired every one of my bags used, and they all fit the particular instruments for which I purchased them very nicely, though they weren't specified as fitting the models that I own. I don't use my Cronkhite bags anymore, but I'm not selling them.

And I don't believe Torpedo is using ALL of his patterns, just the ones that cover the spectrum sufficiently. I would suspect there was some sort of conversion process from what Glenn had to what Torpedo needs for their process. It's not a knock on them, they are excellent bags, but I suspect they have thinned the herd a bit from what they acquired from Glenn.

wouldn't surprise me in the least.
more streamlining.
I don't judge them for higher pricing than Glenn, because
- they had to BUY his company and patterns/methods
- money is worth HALF of what it was when he was making them
...but I personally wouldn't pay their "sale" prices for those bags...Well...I bought all of mine (whether new condition or good/used condition) used...
...and I've sworn off using bags (even though I'm aging, and cased tubas are feeling heavier to me, these days)...I may (??) ending up retreating to them, if forced to do so.