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NOTICE that the classiest BAND MUSIC composers wrote for BAND, and the titles of their symphonies are NOT
"Symphony for Wind Symphony, but - rather - are "Symphony for BAND".

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... y+for+band

Jazzing up names (such as changing a school's name from "Blah-blah STATE University", to "University of Blah-blah", etc., etc., etc...)...everyone is hip to the sh!t that's going on. It's an attempt to garner respect (for states' alsoran universities) via snootier-pootier-sounding names. (Y'all remember T.U.B.A. ?)

OK...an adjective (for clarity) is probably acceptable:
- BIG band (c. 16-or-so-piece dance/jazz band with three types of horns and a rhythm section).
- WIND band/CONCERT band (most people - even laymen - seem to know what that is.)
- POLKA band
- KLEZMER band
- etc...

Even "wind ensemble" (as Fred Fennell's attempt to garner more respect for his band at Eastman - and since copied/pasted by thousands of other band directors)...whatever...Most laypeople don't know what that is...

Oh yeah...(ref: a short-lived trend from the 1960's) also please don't refer to your CONCERT band as a SYMPHONY band.
The term SYMPHONY orchestra is probably (??) OK, because (besides the fact that everyone knows what this is) PLUS the fact that - within most concerts - they TEND to play symphonies (or symphony-like multi-movement works). Concert bands...?? not so much.

For schools that split their programs by audition: top band, middle band, bottom band, basement band, bargain basement band (as needed).

I never did understand the Wind Symphony thing. Wind Ensemble, as Fennell did, was one person per part. I guess a Symphonic Band may include a bass fiddle and a harp? To me, they are either marching bands or sit down bands.

Stryk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:34 pm I never did understand the Wind Symphony thing. Wind Ensemble, as Fennell did, was one person per part. I guess a Symphonic Band may include a bass fiddle and a harp? To me, they are either marching bands or sit down bands.

...so school band directors - who aren't skilled at recruiting - direct "wind ensembles"...??

...I suppose it's OK to add a bull fiddle and harp to a concert band...as long as the bull fiddler understands that they won't be heard, and the harpist understands that they will sit there with no parts and do nothin'...or ad lib off of reduced scores (??)

One-on-a-part...??
most of the "mezzo" instruments should ALWAYS be one-on-a-part:
1 first alto
1 second alto
1 tenor
1 bari
1 euphonium/baritone horn
1st/2nd/3rd/4th horns (not 8 of them - maximum 4. Four missing half the pitches they attempt to play is plenty.)

Western music is mostly harmonized treble and bass.
Most "concert" bands sound muddy (ok: "to bloke's ears") for two reasons:
- (again) far too many alto/tenor-range instruments
- too many band directors (and studio teachers) encouraging students to purchase HUGE instruments outfitted with HUGE mouthpieces
[a] because "those are what symphony cats use"
to muffle students' poor tone production, rather than emphasizing improved tone production

GC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:32 pm For schools that split their programs by audition: top band, middle band, bottom band, basement band, bargain basement band (as needed).

How magnificently blunt!

The college I got my music degree from had/has...

Wind Ensemble - Top level band with exact head count in sections. There were only 2 tubas
Symphonic Band - No real difference (except conductor) from Concert band. Split of the rest of the wind and percussion players
Concert Band - No real difference (except conductor) from Symphonic Band. Split of the rest of the wind and percussion players

I thought Symphony was a chocolate bar.

How about using the designations that the sports teams use....

Tim-bits band (for the really little kids) hahaha
Midget band
Junior varsity (JV) band
Varsity band

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:41 pm How about using the designations that the sports teams use....

Tim-bits band (for the really little kids) hahaha
Midget band
Junior varsity (JV) band
Varsity band

The middle school band should be "Little Brass-Tards"

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:41 pm How about using the designations that the sports teams use....

Tim-bits band (for the really little kids) hahaha
Midget band
Junior varsity (JV) band
Varsity band

Actually at my HS the top band was the Concert Band and the kids that didn’t make that were in the Varsity Band. Plus there were 2 freshman bands and they were referred to as Freshman Band A and Freshman Band B. There were 550 kids in the music program. Big school with a superb music program.

I too find the whole wind ensemble thing ridiculous as well. Be what you are and play the music that was written for the great American Concert Band. My current Muni Band models on the Sousa Band which I believe was really the impetus for the development of school band programs to begin with. It’s amazing to me how so many of the kids in these school bands have never played a march by one of the greats like Carl King, JJ Richards, Sousa, Goldman etc. It’s like a revelation to them when the best of them gets to sit in with us for 6 weeks during the semester and then play a concert with us. We take one kid from each of the 5 HS in town for each concert during the school year.

I saw one HS group in the labor day parade playing Superstition by Stevie Wonder as they marched. It was bad - really bad. Even the kids looked embarrassed. Who in their right mind thought Superstition was a piece that would translate well & be a good piece for a HS marching band to play - much less on the street!

We were lucky to have a band. My problem was the music we played. My Junior year we got a new director who gave us good stuff that was not written for wind band. I got to play something other then ump pa.

CCC

There is this old vaudeville play / jazz standard / wherever it originated Gassenhauer about potatos and tomatos which provided a suggestion of what to do with discussions like that.

Yes, of course, the notion that words have meanings is a very important one.
But I suggest to apply it to expressions that define objects, convey states of existence, describe actions and qualities.

What names people pick for institutions they want to promote doesn´t fall into that category, in my opinion.
After all: What EXACTLY makes the NYC-based high quality string band a "New York Philharmonic" while the Chicago-based equivalent gets to call itself the "Chicago Symphony Orchestra"?

Distinction between musical institutions of identical genre may be a bright idea, by the way.
There´s a totally practical reason Munich has the "Münchner Philharmoniker", the "Münchner Symphoniker", the "Münchner Rundfunkorchester", the "Symphonieorchester des Bayrischen Rundfunks" and an array of similar bodies of music with all kinds of funny names that recruit their members from the same pool of musicians (academically trained ones) and program their repertoire from overlapping pools of literature:

It´s so you know what f-ing orchestra someone is talking about.

Charlie C Chowder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:16 am We were lucky to have a band. My problem was the music we played. My Junior year we got a new director who gave us good stuff that was not written for wind band. I got to play something other then ump pa.

CCC

My high school band director had good taste as well.
When I moved on to the state university (only majoring in music ed. because I really didn't have any idea about anything in particular, and I was already playing a lot of gigs - including with some of the more versatile professor people), after one year the band director-who had been there for decades - left, and a new one was hired. Some of the music faculty looked down their nose at the new guy, because none of his degrees - including his terminal degree - were from yankee colleges, yet he pushed the sit-down band to play more as an ensemble.
The previous band director is someone whose name you've seen on the first Rich Matteson and Harvey Phillips LP, Tom Ferguson - the jazz pianist. He really wasn't too interested in the concert band, and delegated it to the assistant band director until the week of the concert. (Tom WAS interested in the university's "A" jazz band - a group of young working professional jazz musicians who were in school working on degrees due to Tom's heavy scholarship funding of them, and played every bit as well as the North Texas band, though they were not the least bit interested in comparing themselves. I actually believe they viewed playing in that band every afternoon as more of a job than an educational experience.
...fwiw, their concerts were the only ones for which admission was charged in the music department, and it was 10 whole dollars back in the 1970s and sold out every time. Students were not exempt from the ticket charge.)
The replacement head band director was much more of a humanitarian (i.e. nice guy) who cared about students and - again he worked to make the (concert) band listen more to intonation, balance, and sonority. He actually brought in a doctoral student and paid him to change the style of the marching band from old school to a blend of old school and corps style as well, so he was actually somewhat innovative. The replacement (re: the sit down top concert band, which he did NOT delegate) was really into Hindsley transcriptions (Glinka, Liszt, R. Strauss, etc.) which taught the band a lot as well.
I loved that man, but even he was guilty of labeling it a "symphonic wind ensemble", and whatever. I forgave him of that long ago. LOL

The best part of this entire thread is the use of bull fiddle. Thank you, I haven’t heard that used in so long I thought it was forgotten.

We aim to please.

I was typing on a keyboard. "Upright bass" always seems awkward/stilted to me, and using the word "contrabass" - in an audience of wind players - probably automatically makes them think of LeBlanc "paperclip" BB-flat clarinets. "Bull fiddle" just seems to roll off the tongue, and it certainly isn't stilted.

I think there is some kind of unspoken rule about not using terms like "4th band" or 5th band in a school setting, Even 40 years ago when I was in school they were using terms like "wind ensemble" and "concert band" when a school has more than 3 or 4 different band classes (I've seen as many as 5 in a large High school) I think you have to get creative in naming them.

Does EVERYTHING bug you, or just almost everything?

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 4:34 pm I think there is some kind of unspoken rule about not using terms like "4th band" or 5th band in a school setting, Even 40 years ago when I was in school they were using terms like "wind ensemble" and "concert band" when a school has more than 3 or 4 different band classes (I've seen as many as 5 in a large High school) I think you have to get creative in naming them.

Does EVERYTHING bug you, or just almost everything?

Memphis State University (before "University of Memphis", and back before everyone got a trophy), had four jazz bands (big bands)
A, B, C, and D.

A was "excellent", B was always "good", C was typically "average", D was "low average, but passing" (remarkably like report card scores).

What bugs me? pretense, benjamin-spock-ism

Consider yourself trolled.

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