Deeper look at mouthpieces
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:23 pm
I have been working on taking measurements of the mouthpieces I have.
So I'll back up a little bit to explain how I came to this endeavor; I had been using a quite large mouthpiece exclusively for years because when I was in college it worked very well with my Cc tuba. A couple years ago, I forgot my mouthpiece at home in my rush out the door. So I borrowed one from the director for the rehearsal. It was a yamaha something, much smaller than my mouthpiece. Right away I noticed that my accuracy or centering in the staff was greatly improved. But my low range greatly suffered. This got the gears turning. Maybe I should find a mouthpiece that fits somewhere in the middle. The low range, pedals, isn't so important for me now. Neither is playing above the staff. Also, I find myself frequently playing with a college tuba performance major and another fella who drop an octave as often as they can. Which is ok; Maybe, too much. As far as playing high, I want to utilize this eb tuba.
I also added in my newest endeavor, the Olds Baritone. I now have 4 mouthpieces for that. My results here were more enlightening for me.
I'll describe some terms for people who might not familiar with engineering stuff.
"ID" is inside diameter.
"OD" is outside diameter.
"OAL" is overall length.
I'm including a chart I made from my measurements for comparison purposes. I also added some measurements from a few popular manufacturers as they were listed on thier websites. Maybe it will be helpful to someone.
I took the mouthpieces to work. Cleaned them up. Rounded the shank ends out as best I could. Polished, buffed and measured. At work I have access to and use daily, all types of micrometers, calipers, gauge balls, gauge pins etc. With accuracy of .0001 inches or better however I rounded all measurements to .001 inches. I tried to make my rim ID measurements at a depth from the face about .020 attempting to avoid measuring on the radius. I later saw on a manufacturer website a note that said their rim ID measurements are done at a depth of .060 which I found interesting because that's quite far into the cup. To measure the depth of the cup is challenging because of the different shapes of the bowl. I decided that the most consistant way to do this is to use a gauge pin that is .010 larger than the throat ID. So I added the OAL of the mouthpiece to the OAL of the pin, then inserted the pin into the cup and measured the OAL of the mouthpiece with the pin in the cup. Subtract that from the other to get an accurate depth. So (MP OAL+Pin OAL)-(MP with Pin inserted OAL)=Cup Depth.
In the future I want to add mouthpiece cup volume to this chart. I think this might be very interesting as it applies to tone color. But I currently dont have an accurate measuring cup to use.
Because of irregularities in the ends of the mp shanks and differences between mps I decided to use a comparator to make those measurements. The end OD measurements of each mp were made at .100 from the end. The shank throat OD measurements were made at 1.000 from the end. Using trigonometry with these measurements I also noted the shank OD taper for each.
Here's my assessment of my mouthpieces in relation to my tubas;
The Conn 2 (acquired from arpthark, very reasonable, thank you) plays well in the staff but centering notes is fuzzy. I think this is because it has a small rim ID and a large throat ID.
The Conn Helleberg I have is (I'm guessing) an 1980s vintage. It has no other marking besides "Conn Helleberg." I make this guess based on my limited knowledge of the previous owner/tuba I acquired it with(miraphone 186 Bb). Plays well mid range. Takes a lot more effort/concentration to play below C under the staff and above F in the staff.
The Tuba Exchange Rose mouthpiece plays great mid staff to pedals. Anything mid staff up requires more control/effort. This one seems like a larger deeper version of the Helleberg.
Blessing. Well, it's small. Great for a kiddo beginner. It fits well in my eb tuba. Is uncomfortable to play.
Baritone/Trombone;
The Czech mp is odd dimensionally but it works well in this olds baritone. It is a shallow bowl shaped cup. It's just too small for me and is very incomfortable to use. It was with this horn when I found it in an antique shop. I'm guessing that the person who owned this horn was a trumpet player who doubled.
The Holton collegiate I purchased via Reverb. The price was good and everything went well. It is also small with a shallow funnel shaped cup. It is very difficult to center pitches and also uncomfortable.
The next 2 mps I purchased from martinman and really enjoyed chatting/dealing with him.
The Holton 84 is probably my favorite mp except it just didnt work well with this baritone. It also didnt center pitches well. It's a deeper funnel shaped cup.
The king m21 mp works very well with this horn. It's kind of a blend of a funnel and a bowl shape like a helleberg. This also worked best for my son.
The interesting thing is that the only thing in common between the two mps that work well with this horn is the throat ID. Smaller, notes center well. The other mps do not center and are very 'airy' sounding.
So, after making all of these measurements. Playing all of these mps. Pertaining to my current goals with my tubas, My conclusion is that I would like to find a mp that is similar to a Helleberg style with a rim ID of about 1.29 (inch) and a throat ID of about .318.... the thought here is that this size will play really well for me from low f to the top of the staff....
Maybe my measurements will be helpful to others.
So I'll back up a little bit to explain how I came to this endeavor; I had been using a quite large mouthpiece exclusively for years because when I was in college it worked very well with my Cc tuba. A couple years ago, I forgot my mouthpiece at home in my rush out the door. So I borrowed one from the director for the rehearsal. It was a yamaha something, much smaller than my mouthpiece. Right away I noticed that my accuracy or centering in the staff was greatly improved. But my low range greatly suffered. This got the gears turning. Maybe I should find a mouthpiece that fits somewhere in the middle. The low range, pedals, isn't so important for me now. Neither is playing above the staff. Also, I find myself frequently playing with a college tuba performance major and another fella who drop an octave as often as they can. Which is ok; Maybe, too much. As far as playing high, I want to utilize this eb tuba.
I also added in my newest endeavor, the Olds Baritone. I now have 4 mouthpieces for that. My results here were more enlightening for me.
I'll describe some terms for people who might not familiar with engineering stuff.
"ID" is inside diameter.
"OD" is outside diameter.
"OAL" is overall length.
I'm including a chart I made from my measurements for comparison purposes. I also added some measurements from a few popular manufacturers as they were listed on thier websites. Maybe it will be helpful to someone.
I took the mouthpieces to work. Cleaned them up. Rounded the shank ends out as best I could. Polished, buffed and measured. At work I have access to and use daily, all types of micrometers, calipers, gauge balls, gauge pins etc. With accuracy of .0001 inches or better however I rounded all measurements to .001 inches. I tried to make my rim ID measurements at a depth from the face about .020 attempting to avoid measuring on the radius. I later saw on a manufacturer website a note that said their rim ID measurements are done at a depth of .060 which I found interesting because that's quite far into the cup. To measure the depth of the cup is challenging because of the different shapes of the bowl. I decided that the most consistant way to do this is to use a gauge pin that is .010 larger than the throat ID. So I added the OAL of the mouthpiece to the OAL of the pin, then inserted the pin into the cup and measured the OAL of the mouthpiece with the pin in the cup. Subtract that from the other to get an accurate depth. So (MP OAL+Pin OAL)-(MP with Pin inserted OAL)=Cup Depth.
In the future I want to add mouthpiece cup volume to this chart. I think this might be very interesting as it applies to tone color. But I currently dont have an accurate measuring cup to use.
Because of irregularities in the ends of the mp shanks and differences between mps I decided to use a comparator to make those measurements. The end OD measurements of each mp were made at .100 from the end. The shank throat OD measurements were made at 1.000 from the end. Using trigonometry with these measurements I also noted the shank OD taper for each.
Here's my assessment of my mouthpieces in relation to my tubas;
The Conn 2 (acquired from arpthark, very reasonable, thank you) plays well in the staff but centering notes is fuzzy. I think this is because it has a small rim ID and a large throat ID.
The Conn Helleberg I have is (I'm guessing) an 1980s vintage. It has no other marking besides "Conn Helleberg." I make this guess based on my limited knowledge of the previous owner/tuba I acquired it with(miraphone 186 Bb). Plays well mid range. Takes a lot more effort/concentration to play below C under the staff and above F in the staff.
The Tuba Exchange Rose mouthpiece plays great mid staff to pedals. Anything mid staff up requires more control/effort. This one seems like a larger deeper version of the Helleberg.
Blessing. Well, it's small. Great for a kiddo beginner. It fits well in my eb tuba. Is uncomfortable to play.
Baritone/Trombone;
The Czech mp is odd dimensionally but it works well in this olds baritone. It is a shallow bowl shaped cup. It's just too small for me and is very incomfortable to use. It was with this horn when I found it in an antique shop. I'm guessing that the person who owned this horn was a trumpet player who doubled.
The Holton collegiate I purchased via Reverb. The price was good and everything went well. It is also small with a shallow funnel shaped cup. It is very difficult to center pitches and also uncomfortable.
The next 2 mps I purchased from martinman and really enjoyed chatting/dealing with him.
The Holton 84 is probably my favorite mp except it just didnt work well with this baritone. It also didnt center pitches well. It's a deeper funnel shaped cup.
The king m21 mp works very well with this horn. It's kind of a blend of a funnel and a bowl shape like a helleberg. This also worked best for my son.
The interesting thing is that the only thing in common between the two mps that work well with this horn is the throat ID. Smaller, notes center well. The other mps do not center and are very 'airy' sounding.
So, after making all of these measurements. Playing all of these mps. Pertaining to my current goals with my tubas, My conclusion is that I would like to find a mp that is similar to a Helleberg style with a rim ID of about 1.29 (inch) and a throat ID of about .318.... the thought here is that this size will play really well for me from low f to the top of the staff....
Maybe my measurements will be helpful to others.
