Lincoln, NE: V.F. Cerveny & Fils 1890’s Eb tuba

[sugawi]

Eb from 1890’s?
https://reverb.com/item/85852552-v-f-c ... onium-tuba

[arpthark]

Wicked cool!

@Tubajug, you need this!

[Tubajug]

Whoa! I wonder where they got that??

I might have to go check it out, though I have no cash to buy it...

[humBell]

Why couldn't more instruments have thumb rings like these?

In my opinion these are worth trying to restore?

Hard to tell though.

If memory serves, a slightly older (wider wrap or shorter bell stack, medalion only had one year) i know of got restored, and was what i first got a chance to figure out eb fingerings on. Listening to others play it at the time, it had a glorious sound and none of the intonation issues i ran into trying to play it...

[catgrowlB]

An old Eb Kaisertuba. Perfect tuba on Brahms

[arpthark]

13" stovepipe bell, kranz, keel, medallion, huge thumb ring with nickel-silver flange, big n.s. piece on the rear of the bell, mouthpiece, proprietary sideways rotors (forget the proper term), adjustable-tension clockspring mechanisms replete with engravings on valve caps, paddles and linkages... this one has it all!

[Mary Ann]

Yeahbut is it low pitch?

[LeMark]

in the words of Indiana Jones

It belongs in a museum!!

except there is already one like it in Durham, and if I was close enough to pick it up, I would have bought it myself days ago

[tofu]

The medallion on the bell features Chicago 1893 and Paris 1889. The Paris 1889 exposition was for the 100th anniversary of the Storming of the Bastille. The start of the French Revolution. I’m assuming Cerveny exhibited. About half of the exhibitors were outside of France and they had like 65,000 exhibitors.

Chicago 1893 and medal relief of Christopher Columbus must be for the World Fair held in Chicago in 1893 - The Columbian Exposition - the Great White City - held in Jackson Park on about 650 acres including a bunch of acres recovered from the lakefront near the University of Chicago. It was held to celebrate the 400th Anniversary of Columbus landing in the New World. 46 nations participated and 27 million people from all over visited. Is it possible Cerveny had an exhibit at the Chicago World’s Fair and this horn was on display and sold there? I assume this horn has been in the Nebraska area for it’s life and people from that area of the country streamed into Chicago on the several rail lines that flooded into Chicago from that part of the midwest - and it was an easy few hours trip to findthemselves into the heart of the city - a big deal for citizens of the very rural midwest of the time - the farmbelt.

Back then manufacturers even had assembly lines at these fairs and made their products for sale built on the spot available for purchase by fair goers. Over 200 new buildings (mostly temporary) were erected on site for the fair and they were big. One remains in the form of the Museum of Science Industry. Is it possible this horn could have even been built and sold at the fair and somebody from Nebraska went home on the train with this shiny new tuba? Perhaps even playing a few tunes for the happy revelers going back home from the fair onboard the train? A lot of people came for the day and went back home that night after a long day. The railroads even had extra Fair Special trains for day visitors.

At the later 1933-34 World’s Fair again held in Chicago - Chrysler had an entire assembly line at the fair and built complete cars for sale to fair goers. My Aunt and Uncle bought a 1933 Chrysler rumble seat coupe on the spot at the fair and watched it being built from start to finish and then drove it home. Had to be an interesting experience. The cars had a few special touches such as badges that it was built at the fair but were otherwise the same car available at the dealer. Don’t know if you got a special price or not.

[tofu]

Whoa! I wonder where they got that??

I might have to go check it out, though I have no cash to buy it...

Hey if you do check it out can you post here. I’d be interested if it’s in good enough condition to be put in playable shape and with decent (at least fixable) intonation. Would be a great horn for the Light Guard Band I play in. It’s not a bad trip from Chicago but too long to go and try and find out it’s best life is as a display item.

Back in like 1992 in the middle of January there was a huge auction either 40 miles north or west of Lincoln Nebraska (can’t remember) - just remember getting lost late at night in the middle of farmland in a blizzard trying to find a motel. Held on a huge farm - the old guy had been a John Deere dealer starting in the late teens and a pretty successful one and even back in the middle of the 1920’s he started collecting old cars and motorcycles. Owned a couple thousand acres farm where he had them all.

Huge collection - maybe 250-300 cars from the 1910’s thru the 1960’s and maybe 400 motorcycles (pretty much all original and complete - the holly grail of vintage motorcycles). He had a bunch of very early Harley single and V-twins starting with a 1903 or 1904 and on up. I figure it’s middle of January middle of nowhere USA - and being held outside - in the middle of the week. Nobody is going to be coming from far away.

This was really before the big run up of vintage motorcycles collecting and I’m there for one of the absolutely all original and all there early Harley’s in the 1907 - 1911 vintage. It snowed hard the night before while driving in from Chicago and the farm grounds are about a foot thick snow on top of thick ice. It’s 5 degrees with a 15 - 20 mph wind. I think this is great - nobody is going to come. I get there early at 7 am or so and the place is already mobbed with people. It’s a zoo. They had decided to sell the motorcycles in a barn and it’s packed. Outside they’re dragging the cars with a chain wrapped around the front axle to a tractor. About 2 hours in they’re dragging a big 1930’s 4 door town sedan through the crowd and the chain snaps - taking down about 30 spectators - several ambulances had to be called. People were seriously injured. Auction stops for a couple hours and starts back up inside the wide open barn with the motorcycles. I’m ready - I’ve got $7500 in my pocket -which was about the price of an average Harley of the period I was looking for at the time.

They start with the oldest motorcycles and I’m feeling good about my chances as while the crowd was large on site I didn’t think they were there for the early cycles. Also these bikes were in unbelievable shape for the age and complete and untouched a huge plus and way better than I would have thought. I knew they were worth far more than what an average bike was at the time, but unless you were there you wouldn’t know it as the info on this auction was not much and few pictures. Didn’t seem well publicized. The car sales I had witnessed there early weren’t that high.

I knew I was in trouble when they started with the first cycle. What I didn’t realize they had set up a big temporary landline phone bank in the barn - they were getting bids from all over the world. The first cycle goes for a record price - easily 10 times what would be expected to a guy in Australia on the phone. The bikes I was interested in were going for 3-7 times what I had in my pocket. Many of those bikes were being bought by bidders in Australia, Europe and Japan. I wasn’t competing with a guy from Nebraska - I was bidding against guys half way around the globe. I hadn’t at the time expected that - this wasn’t a Sotheby's or Christie's fine art auction in NYC -but a middle of nowhere farm auction. Today I’d expect it - but not back then. I remembered I had borrowed my dad’s brick mobile phone back then to use and when I got to Nebraska I had to call the carrier to be able to roam there and make a call. Even that was of limited use as I had to stop to use a pay phone to find the motel. This was not the height of being able to call from anywhere with a mobile phone.

Today those early bikes are worth a fortune and even those record prices back then on the early cycles were cheap. Today those early Harley’s in all original all there untouched condition are going for a million bucks. I knew those things were going to become highly valued. I just was too young with too little money in my pocket at the time. Stood outside for about 10 hours - I was frozen by the time I got back to my car. Long ride home - lesson learned.

[Tubajug]

Wow, great information, tofu. And a very interesting story!

I might be able to go check it out tonight. I will certainly take pictures and post what I find when I do.

[Tubajug]

I just went to go check it out. The store owner said he's had it for years and just got around to pulling it out to sell. He doesn't remember where he got it or any story behind it, unfortunately. He said a guy from Wisconsin is coming to look at it on Saturday, so it's currently on hold for him.

I didn't see any cracks or even really any popped braces. There is an abundance of solder at several places on the horn. The tape on the main slide could be hiding stuff, or the owner just wanted a better grip? The kranz was separated from the bell nearly all the way around and there was one spot that had been worn/chipped away. The leadpipe looks like it's been patched and then slathered with solder.

The first three valves move, the fourth is frozen. Either the springs are broken or are just not adjusted tight enough, because they did not move back up on their own. The first valve slide actually moves, the others are all frozen.

I brought a Miraphone Helleberg-type mouthpiece with me and gave it a blow on the open bugle. The receiver swallowed my American shank mouthpiece. The mouthpiece that is zip tied to it had what looked bits stuck to it. I forgot to look for a make or model on it. The Eb octaves are well in tune with themselves, though about 25 cents sharp according to my phone tuner. First line Bb was only about 15 cents sharp. Fourth space G was really flat. It had a really nice, warm sound. The pedal Eb popped right out. I didn't think to take a video of me playing it until after I left.

The pictures below are mostly of the solder spots around the horn. I did a quick video of the valves.

Hope this helps!

[catgrowlB]

Cool old horn, but has a lot of issues that need to be addressed My old Kaiser BBb is of a similar age and had (and still has) issues similar to this horn, mostly the bell rim. A fragile, special use tuba with a huge warm sound that still plays very well. But these old/ ancient horns often need work and are delicate.

[tofu]

Honestly - for a horn that is perhaps as old as 132 years - and likely kicking around in in amateur community type bands in middle america most if it’s life - it’s in about as good a shape as I would have guessed. I could see the solder issues being diy yourself type repairs by a handyman/owner back in the 20’s-40’s. The electrical tape probably a more modern attempt by somebody in the last 40 years. My guess there’s a big crack in the tubing. They weren’t thick brass to begin with and age doesn’t help. It’d be interesting if it sells to the fellow from WI. If he passes that will be telling. The owner may be more amenable to offers then if it doesn’t sell. With the potential that it would be just a wall hanger I’d be pricing an offer in that offer range. Thanks for the update.

[MiBrassFS]

2 things….

I think BBC had a very similar tuba, but restored and shiny a while back. Cool tuba, it was.

I’d almost lay odds that the tape is hiding an open seam.

Thanks for the pictures, @Tubajug.