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Hi everyone, I’m heading to college this fall as a music education major and I’m starting to look for a CC tuba. I have about $5,000 as an absolute maximum budget right now. I have an appointment at Dillon Music to try their 410CC (Miraphone 186 copy), and there is also a used Conn 52J CC there, though I doubt it will still be available by the time of my appointment. I’ve looked at Wessex tubas, but I feel like I could get better value buying used. Someone on here recently posted an 80s Miraphone 184 5-valve CC for sale less than an hour away, which really caught my interest. Would a horn like that serve me well for a basic non-performance degree? I’ve talked with my professor and he recommends switching to C. What is currently for sale or what should I be looking for under the $5k mark, preferably near eastern Pennsylvania?

It's hard to beat the Mack Brass 410CC for the price. It's a good instrument (Miraphone 186 copy) and will serve you well in a non-performance degree. They are located in Virginia.
https://mackbrass.com/tu410-cc-tuba

Check the for sale listings. 184s are good horns. Value wise, a Mirafone will keep value much better than a copy.

Sent you a message.

Another member here from Reading. Small world.

Taking a trip to Uncle Matt Walters @ Dillons is always a good trip. Matt is very knowledgeable is one of the best Low Brass techs around the area.

Good luck in your search.

Not to change subject on you... but if you are doing an education degree why switch to CC??... In the future your students will l be playing BBb? BBb is going to be the weapon of choice for most amateur playing/occasional paid gigs etc after you graduate. It send kind of silly to me to go CC only to switch back later.

Granted I don't have any music degree at all, so please take my question in the spirit it was asked. I am not trying to tell you what to do.. just trying to understand the recommendation from the professor.

I played a 184 5 valve C in college for a year (school horn) and it was great for solo and small ensemble work. So light and nimble. But I have to agree wth the folks wondering if you really need a C. I have a Mack Brass 410 and I never play it - I can't bring it down in pitch enough to play in tune and the valve linkages are imho terrible, as are all Chinese rotary valve instruments. My main horn now is a VMI 3302 (BBb 4 pistons, 1 rotor) that I bought used several years ago for $3,500. I love that horn. A tad heavy (and it seems to get heavier every year) but worth it. Built like a tank.

Unless your professor requires you to play a C, I'd buy a BBb. If you were a performance major then maybe a C (and an F, too) but otherwise I don't see the reason to switch.

Having said all that, If I had the money and the need, I would consider this one:

https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=13069

What @gocsick said -- if you're going to be a band director the school instruments will be BBbs and your CC won't work very well. BBbs are considerably cheaper to find used too.

If you're going to Dillon, try this one out:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-king-1 ... =115983986

If I were going back to college as an education major, I'd buy this, put the upright bell on it, and not look back.

I currently have a great BBb tuba (a Jupiter 1110); however, I plan to double major in education and performance and go beyond to at least a masters degree, and my professor has said in emails that all of his students play either F or CC tubas and would recommend that I learn one as well.

Many people, especially collegiate teachers, will despise what I'm going to say here.

If your going to undergrad (bachelors) for music education, there is no good reason for you to put the stress of switching/ learning Cc tuba on yourself. I did that because everyone told me I had to play Cc. And it was completely unnecessary and added a lot of work for no reason. The miraphone 186 Bb I had prior would have been more than adequate for everything I ever had to play in undergrad.

If you want to teach, stick with Bbb and learn that really well along with your teaching classes. If you need a bass tuba, pick up a good eb. Adding that will not be too difficult.

#####Focus on your degree and filter out the unnecessary crap professors try to dump on you for thier own gratitude. They do use students to influence other professors, make themselves look good. All while neglecting what's best for you. To succeed, you need to watch out for yourself. Ask questions. Make sure your on the right path for your goals.

Later, graduate/masters possibly for performance, then mess around with tubas in other keys.


**** I wish I had received this advice from my teachers when I was in school.

I ultimately did not finish because of many life decisions. But, it would have made a world of difference for me if people were just honest even if it hurt my feelings. I really wanted to teach, but I dont have a personality that is compatible with teaching. I would have been a terrible teacher. Instead, I should have been steered towards instrument repair.

College is a huge expense. Be honest with yourself, ask those who know you to be honest, make sure your on the right path for you!

I want you to succeed!

^ He is planning on a double major -- education and performance. He already has a good BBb, and wants a CC.

For under $5k, a Miraclone 186 CC copy or Arpthark's Kalison DS would be good choices, imo. Sometimes other good CC tubas pop up used for under $5k.

I don't want to step on any toes, but with all due respect to the Mira 184 -- that is a rather small, skinny CC tuba. Pretty much a de-facto "rotary F with a good low register", and sounds like one. I don't think bbuxx2026 would be satisfied with the lack of depth/breadth for ensemble playing with that horn, unless he is going for that sound

catgrowlB wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 4:18 pm ^ He is planning on a double major -- education and performance. He already has a good BBb, and wants a CC.

For under $5k, a Miraclone 186 CC copy or Arpthark's Kalison DS would be good choices, imo. Sometimes other good CC tubas pop up used for under $5k.

I don't want to step on any toes, but with all due respect to the Mira 184 -- that is a rather small, skinny CC tuba. Pretty much a de-facto "rotary F with a good low register", and sounds like one. I don't think bbuxx2026 would be satisfied with the lack of depth/breadth for ensemble playing with that horn, unless he is going for that sound

As long as you have one where the intonation quirks aren't terrible, and you can really get to know it, I do think it's a decent one-horn-quiver. It's very different than a 6/4 or even 4/4 horn in a theoretical way. Meaning, you have to approach the function of the instrument differently. But it can be very musically effective in all but the biggest/loudest orchestras. And mine absolutely sings in the upper register.

I had to switch to CC in college,.prof said and I don't regret it, it's easier to me to play my old 186CC than the new 186BBb that I can play any day, I guess I'm just lazy.

Get a REAL MIRAFONE THAT IS USED, preferably an OLD 186 that ain't pretty or shiny (raw brass is better) and learn and love it. Don't get some Eastman 6/4 pipe organ thing, 4/4 is big enough.

P Play BBb in marching band. In community band over the summer, alternate between CC and BBb. This will stretch your brain. Play an etude on CC, then BBb and make sure you play it equally well with both.

Then learn to drive the hotrod, an F tuba. (I like B&S.)

bbuxx2026 wrote: Sun Feb 08, 2026 10:45 pm Hi everyone, I’m heading to college this fall as a music education major and I’m starting to look for a CC tuba. I have about $5,000 as an absolute maximum budget right now. I have an appointment at Dillon Music to try their 410CC (Miraphone 186 copy), and there is also a used Conn 52J CC there, though I doubt it will still be available by the time of my appointment. I’ve looked at Wessex tubas, but I feel like I could get better value buying used. Someone on here recently posted an 80s Miraphone 184 5-valve CC for sale less than an hour away, which really caught my interest. Would a horn like that serve me well for a basic non-performance degree? I’ve talked with my professor and he recommends switching to C. What is currently for sale or what should I be looking for under the $5k mark, preferably near eastern Pennsylvania?

I am the seller of the 184. I just sold it today. If you are absolutely set on a CC, I would also suggest the Kalison that @arpthark has. That is a great all-around tuba. I owned a Mack Brass 186 clone for many years. That is also a great horn.

https://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=13229

This would also be a great horn to consider, if it is still available. It's a B&S/VMI Stencil so you can at least get a nice vote of confidence when it comes to quality and sound.

As someone who teaches college, I don’t require my music education majors to play CC, and I encourage that they don’t switch. They lose valuable development time I don’t often get with my euphonium and trombone majors.

A few don’t listen and buy a CC or come in with a CC when I feel a good BBb would suit them better long term for their goals.

But then again, I’m weird and wacky Dr. Green.

I'm sorry I went a little overboard about college. As you can tell it was not the right direction for me. It wasn't bad, I learned a lot, grew a lot, accomplished next to nothing in reality. I just dont want other people to learn it's not right for them the way I did. I want the kids coming up to succeed. And they need to hear the bad things to have an idea of what to watch out for.

As for a Cc tuba, Dillon is where I bought mine. And my sons french horn. An excellent place to look. Also, i didnt realize that Baltimore brass is not too far from Dillon's. Maybe 3 hrs drive..? Worth it to look there also. My teacher told me to try as many horns as i could to find what i liked.

In choosing whether to learn C fingerings when you already know Bb fingerings, I think it's important to consider learning efficiency. A teacher who specializes in C tuba may not adapt well to teaching a Bb student, studio rehearsals/exercises may be a weird key mismatch for the odd Bb player, etc. Even if only to learn more effectively during college, learning C fingerings can be a no-brainer tradeoff.

aarongsmith wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 12:16 pm https://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=13229

This would also be a great horn to consider, if it is still available. It's a B&S/VMI Stencil so you can at least get a nice vote of confidence when it comes to quality and sound.

I think that is the one with the Symphonie sized bell, correct? If so, that one should sound really nice!