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I have been saving up for a bit now and soon I should have enough for a euph. Up to now, my experience has been with a King 2280 which has been great for me so far. However, I want to do due diligence and explore the other options on the market. I understand that the Mack and Wessex horns have a good reputation but I would like to know the pros and cons you would associate with them. I don’t want to save up another $1250-1500 to start to dip my toes in the used pro horn market (Euph is a semi-serious 3rd instrument for me) and understand that there will be some issues that come with the lower price tag. Any help would be appreciated. If there are other horns out there that are in the general price range of the horns I mentioned please tell me about those too.

For about the same price as the wessex you can get a Packer 274 from @bloke

Its a better horn in every way.

This raises a question for me.

As many of you know, my Willson 2900 was stolen about 10 years ago. I collected insurance, and decided to learn the 12J that was sitting in the corner of my place rather than buy another horn that made maybe $500 in the decade I've owned it. Meanwhile, the Kay bass I paid $750 for was paying my bills (and still does, pandemic notwithstanding). Learning the 12J has added a significant supplement to my income.

I've come to the freelancer mentality that it's worthless to buy an instrument that doesn't make its money back, especially on a freelancer's budget in recent years. Friends keep discouraging me from getting anything other than the best euphoniums, but I just don't see the point of buying an instrument that will put me in debt for a few years while not making anything back, and I'll likely rarely play it with the gigs on everything else.

I just know I couldn't do a non compensating euphonium. While my friends keep saying no, I do wonder:

What would it be like going from a Willson 2900 to, say, a JP 274?

I had the money last year to trade in my 274 for a more than generous offer, pay the difference on adams (which I consider the gold standard for Euphoniums) and walk away with a brand new horn

I had the money, and a wife supportive of whatever I felt led to do, and I've always considered playing as adams to be practically a religious experience.

So why didn't I do it? For as amazing as the Adams is (the BEST) It was still only 5-10% better than the Packer, and I wasn't willing to pay an extra $6000 to get that extra 5-10%

So, no, I don't think you'll be disappointed with the 274. Look up some demo videos on youtube, they are pretty telling, especially when compared to the Jinbao.

Very cool!

The only downside (if I can even call it that) would be the 12" bell. Not that I'd be doing a lot of traveling with euph anymore, but the 11.4" bell was JUST small enough to fit in most overheads. But that shouldn't be a deal breaker, anyway.

This might be something worth considering. Of all the work on bass and tuba I do, I still feel, even after all these years of not even touching one, that euphonium is my main instrument.

Mine measures at 11 3/4", if that helps

It does. Funny that the site puts it at 12".

This might be a good thought. I've also seen used Dolce horns go for extremely great prices on the used market; I wonder if the JP horns would, as well.

Though, this would be once I can justify to the girlfriend that the Kanstul and the soon-to-be-purchased sousaphone are making money...if the economy favors live music again at the end of the pandemic (which I'm very optimistic about).

One more thing, get a quote from either bloke or Baltimore brass, if you look at online prices, they will be higher than the quote you get from a dealer

I bought a Dolce 2 years ago, and believe it was a great decision. No regrets.

One of the things that distinguishes the Dolce from other similar stencils is the Amado water key on the 2nd valve. It doesn't take long before you can't imagine being happy without it. And yes, I know it can be added by a repair shop, but that's an extra expense and hassle. IMO.

+1 for the Dolce - I use it as n occasional 2nd/ 3rd instrument for some brass band and occasional French orchestral stuffIt seems to work OK with a Roger Bobo tenor tuba mouthpiece so theres not a big drama from switching from my EEb

After listening to a lot of demos over the weekend of the different horns, I have narrowed down the horns I would consider to the Wessex Dolce and the JP 274 with a fallback option of a King 2280. Now it's just time to save up money for the future horn, I'll finally be able to complete a few projects I started a while back.

Name_Plate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:50 pm I have been saving up for a bit now and soon I should have enough for a euph. Up to now, my experience has been with a King 2280 which has been great for me so far. However, I want to do due diligence and explore the other options on the market. I understand that the Mack and Wessex horns have a good reputation but I would like to know the pros and cons you would associate with them. I don’t want to save up another $1250-1500 to start to dip my toes in the used pro horn market (Euph is a semi-serious 3rd instrument for me) and understand that there will be some issues that come with the lower price tag. Any help would be appreciated. If there are other horns out there that are in the general price range of the horns I mentioned please tell me about those too.

The Mack is a pretty nice euphonium overall. I have a rather old one (In the Mack timeline, at least), and it plays good. It has a nice, full, sound, like a Yamaha. it does have a few tuning issues, however. If I recall correctly E and Eb were the two main culprits on this horn. It may not have been those two, but it was somewhere around that range in the staff. i am sure the horn is much better now as a few years have passed since my horn was made and the new ones were.

I cant compare to other horns, but I own and play occasionally a Wessex Dolce of the earlier ones. I use it mostly as travel tuba, or for playing euph parts in brass band, when we are short of euphs. My main instruments are bass bone and EB tuba.

Well sound is pretty good, I am using a Yamaha 58 bass bone mouth piece, and it speaks fine. Intonation is the hurdle, while partials align from fine to manageable, the 2 valve circuit is a tad low, and the 24 combinations is over compensated, resulting in a too flat B natural. I need to do more lipping than I want, which is of course something I am not used to on a bass bone.

It has a nice low register, down to pedal F on 4 without problems, and I have the same range on it than on my bass bone.

Build is OK, though silver plating is in spots off.alignment of valve tubes could be better, but it works.

I bought it for 6 years ago used for 500 pound sterling, and for my needs it is fine, but as main instrument I would try to find something better.

Of course, a newer model Wessex Dolce might be different, I don't know.

2-4 B is almost always going to be flatter than 2-4 low E (regardless of the make/model), so there is not only compensation, but there is also compromise.

LeMark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:01 pm For about the same price as the wessex you can get a Packer 274 from @bloke

Its a better horn in every way.

^^^THIS^^^

Have you checked out Dave Werden's euphonium web site? Lots of threads on his forum and I believe an article or two on these horns there:
http://www.dwerden.com/

iiipopes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:28 am Have you checked out Dave Werden's euphonium web site? Lots of threads on his forum and I believe an article or two on these horns there:
http://www.dwerden.com/

I joined the website a couple of days ago. I have read through a lot of different reviews and perspectives and found quite a bit of useful information. I'm still listening to people on the horns when I find videos on them.

Do you guys see many Jp compensating euphoniums for sale on the used market?

When looking at other stuff, I don't see as many as I do used Jinbao/various-names euphoniums.

I remember seeing a 274 once. The guy was trying to sell it for more than you sell the brand new ones

I think He probably got a good deal on it and thought he could flip it for more since that have such a good reputation.

But people who buy the packer and just decide it's not good enough for them? doesn't happen. Like I said before, I could have upgraded to an adams at TMEA 2020, and decided there wasn't a big enough difference in the two to justify the price difference

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:10 pm Do you guys see many Jp compensating euphoniums for sale on the used market?

No, I haven't found any. Probably a combination of people holding on to their instruments because they work well for them and a lack of penetration into the US market. I would give it 5-10 more years before they can be found commonly used on ebay/reverb and the various forums.