Bartók glissando problem solved once and for all

[bloke]

Of course, this is a joke, but I just finished trolling the bass trombone page on fb with this video.

That having been said, it's a good demonstration of the LONG SEMITONE (not whole-tone) 5th valve circuit on my newly-built-yet-60-years-old Holton BB-flat tuba:

B-natural calls for circuits/valves 1, 3, and 5:

VIDEO LINK HERE: https://i.imgur.com/LRa5XIJ.mp4

[Bob Kolada]

That sounds pretty decent!

The best bet for a bass trombonist, when using a bass trombone!, is probably one of those older Conn or Bach Bb/F/E basses. Something with a long enough handslide to have a single valve C at the end of the slide and double valve B at the same spot. The guy I sold my Kanstul contra to sent me an email a few years after asking if I had a handle for it. I explained it only had a flat 6th and suggested the above. The reply was along the lines of 'uhhh, okay'.

[MikeMason]

We did the “ tuba player pushes the slide in for him” method last time we played. Worked fine.

[martyneilan]

We did the “ tuba player pushes the slide in for him” method last time we played. Worked fine.

That and tying a string from the valve tuning slide to your shoe are my two favorite "non traditional" methods. Someone even made a bass bone that had a trigger sliding extension on the F valve just for that purpose.
Considering how infrequently a BBb tuba needs a near-pedal B natural, Joe's flat half step fifth valve makes a lot of sense.

[bloke]

Yeah…
Baritone saxophones have all been extended in order to produce a sounding C natural at the bottom of their range, and some bass clarinets are extended downward to play a sounding B-flat...but I know of no wind instrument whereby extending its range downward had a goal of producing - in particular- another B-natural.

[Mary Ann]

A horn player can bend those notes and make them work.

[marccromme]

Nay - as a bass trombone player, the Bartok gliss from B to F is perfectly playable if you cultivate your false -tone B ( using F valve Eb 3rd slide position, where it shines) and when lip-slurring up, first go out, than in to 1st position on the slide - still with F valve pressed. If you start the false-tone B convincing, nobody hears that it gets a bit thinner when bending up to a really nice and centered Db on the correct slide position, and from there its a very nice slide gliss.

[bloke]

Nay - as a bass trombone player, the Bartok gliss from B to F is perfectly playable if you cultivate your false -tone B ( using F valve Eb 3rd slide position, where it shines) and when lip-slurring up, first go out, than in to 1st position on the slide - still with F valve pressed. If you start the false-tone B convincing, nobody hears that it gets a bit thinner when bending up to a really nice and centered Db on the correct slide position, and from there its a very nice slide gliss.

My post (again) was a joke...but when I've heard people do as you describe, my nose wrinkles.

[marccromme]

I got that joke, bloke, but was commenting on Bob Kolada, which I should have made explicit.

I find his approach on Conn or Bach Bb/F/E basses tricky, as it is not easy to release a rotary valve sufficient smooth with the 3rd finger which holding a bass trombone in the same hand. The false-tone approach works pretty well, and most bass trombones have a very strong and fine false B on 1. valve Eb (3rd position), which is why it works so smooth.

False (or priviledged) tones are not unseen in the tuba world either ... due to differences between conical tubas and more cylindrical-then-exponential flare trombones, the best false tone is on most of my trombones a major third below the normal tone. On tubas and euphs its lower.

[Bob Kolada]

We did the “ tuba player pushes the slide in for him” method last time we played. Worked fine.

That and tying a string from the valve tuning slide to your shoe are my two favorite "non traditional" methods. Someone even made a bass bone that had a trigger sliding extension on the F valve just for that purpose.
Considering how infrequently a BBb tuba needs a near-pedal B natural, Joe's flat half step fifth valve makes a lot of sense.

I seem to remember Ben van Dijk had one that he actually played for a while on other music. F valve on the finger, kicker valve on the thumb due to the extra strength needed.

[bloke]

On YouTube - as Bartok was Hungarian, there is a very robust Hungarian orchestra performance of the piece. At times, intonation is “interesting“, but that’s beside the point.
As is obvious from the resonance and continued upward pitch, the bass trombone glissando neither features false tones nor any other workarounds. It’s pretty fabulous, and pretty amazing.

[marccromme]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqjLZPJ4gKQ Here you see Ben van Dijk perform the Bartok B to F gliss starting on a false tone B on first valve 3 rd position, which gives played at center an Eb. But bending a major third down to B natural has areally strong false tone resonance. Notice that the gliss goes up, wereas the slide moves first out, then in to first position. During the outwards slide movement the false tone bend glisses up until centered at Db or D in outer positions, then he continues the gliss centered as usual to first position F, all with first valve pressed. Works really well.

[marccromme]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Arb4u40iNxs and here is Bradley Nystroms version of a trombone altereation allowing for a totally centered Bartok gliss using a trigger on the F slide. .... unfortunately he does not demonstrate it here, but you can imagine how it works. 7 th position plus valve plus trigger gives a centered B natural, first position plus valve a centered F. The gliss is then done by releasing the trigger as slow as the slide is moved in. Voila, the perfect Bartok gliss

[bloke]

...and - to my personal tastes - nothing replaces (assuming it's played on a "regular" B-flat bass trombone) a long F-attachment tuning slide that is simultaneously pulled in as the playing slide is also pulled in...

(for a pure - no false tones, no half-valving - and extremely robust glissando).

...as Emory Remington suggested that his bass trombone students do - with their Conn bass trombones...

(a technique that was first explained to me by a Remington student, Russ Schultz, probably forty-five years ago...and I seriously doubt that Remington was the creator of this technique).

example → https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo