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I have been looking for an Eb tuba for my heard. The more I look, the more I hear about the wonders of the Yamaha YEB-321 non compensating Eb tuba.

So, those of you that have tried it... Whatcha think?

Thanks!

I know of someone who has one and used it as their second (type of) instrument when doing their Bachelors Degree, they are into Orchestral type playing and now teach music in a Secondary School. They have had that Tuba for at least twenty years and it isn’t leaving them anytime soon.

This guy has one and has used it for several of his videos:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=neiTiiFp0 ... e=emb_logo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M29l2VJvWE0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5cDOMZQnU

We rarely see them in the U.K., virtually everyone here buys (the notionally better) four valve compensating instruments instead. The YEB-321 is also classed as an ‘intermediate’ instrument - so (in reality) it should be just fine enough for the needs of almost all folk. If one were available and within my budget then I’d be looking for my cheque book and not fussing about compensation. There are times when the missing compensation could be important, but for my use I’d settle for what the guy in the videos achieves and for what my teacher acquaintance happily used in his degree course - and for some decades after too.

I hope that that’s a start and that someone else can offer direct experience.

Edit. I should have added that whilst compensation systems are handy at times and certainly a step in the right direction their benefits are, IMHO, overstated - their benefit is in nearer in tune extension of the very low range and in making the whole of that very range simply playable. Though one would occasionally be handy nearly all of what I do doesn’t need a fourth valve for low range extension, and of that extension only an extra tone or maybe two would be used. How much do you intend and expect to play well below the stave?

If the instrument’s harmonics aren’t in the right place (they often aren’t) then the Tuba will be out of perfect pitch for some open notes and valve combinations that give the right pitch in one combination are sometimes just a little out for another note (of different pitch). The only way that a brass instrument can be played in perfect tune is where a slide is constantly moving to pull the notes’ pitch to that required - and that takes the right instrument and a lot of skill to manage.

I would consider buying one, and then start the process of finding a whole step 5th valve for it. 4 valve non compensating Eb (and F) tubas are just too limiting

I know I've posted about this before...(and offered to sell, which may cause me to appear to have motives beyond simple advice, but...)

Were I looking for a 15-inch bell fully-chromatic E-flat (particularly of the top-action configuration)...

(...and gave up on finding an original 3+1 compensating Besson with modern pitch and good valves...)

I'd find the best deal that I could find on a good-playing 19"-bell version (used English-made or new-use Chinese made...and I've suggested the John Packer JP277, due to a lower price combined with very high build quality), order a YEB-321 15" BELL from a Yamaha dealer or repair shop that can buy parts from Yamaha, and swap the bell, once it arrived.

That's way easier - and way less wonky - than adding a 5th valve to a YEB-321.

Just fwiw...The (also somewhat rare) 5-valve YEB-381 features a 5th valve circuit length that really isn't of much use, and also asks for aftermarket alteration,

Well, I actually do not want a compensating tuba. Non-compensating valves are very appealing to me right now.

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:58 am I would consider buying one, and then start the process of finding a whole step 5th valve for it. 4 valve non compensating Eb (and F) tubas are just too limiting

I agree concerning F tubas. But german style Eb tubas work fine with 4 valves (If you don't need to play the low E).

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:42 am Well, I actually do not want a compensating tuba. Non-compensating valves are very appealing to me right now.

Everyone wants what they want, and that's always first, foremost, and to be respected.

I will only report that every time I've played a 15"-bell / modern-pitch / good-valves / 3+1 comp. / E-flat, it made me grin ear-to-ear.

Fine horns. I used one on my senior recital many years ago, and was dumb enough not to buy it when it was offered to me for sale

Estubist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:15 am But german style Eb tubas work fine with 4 valves (If you don't need to play the low E).

How do you play for example A, Ab and G below the staff?

donn wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:05 pm

Estubist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:15 am But german style Eb tubas work fine with 4 valves (If you don't need to play the low E).

How do you play for example A, Ab and G below the staff?

2-4. 1-2-4 (flat), 2-3-4

With only four valves, the only REALLY close-to-in-tune pitch (which uses the 4th circuit) is 2-3-4 (which would be a G-natural on an E-flat tuba
2-4 is considerably sharp on the 4-valve non-comp system (by "inches"), and the other issues have already been outlined by Mark.

With a typical 5-valve E-flat non-comp, the F (5-2-3-4) is going to be a mile sharp (again, by "inches") and with a typical 3+1 E-flat comp, the E (1-2-3-4) is going to be a mile sharp (also: "inches")...but a longer-than-factory #3 (back of the instrument) comp slide "outruns" the shortcomings of the 3+1 system, and - very satisfactorily - remedies the E.

To me (personally) non-comp "bass" (E-flat and F) tubas with fewer than 6 valves are equally trip-over-their-own-shoes (intonation-wise) as are non-comp contrabass tubas with fewer than 5 valves... (with work-arounds possible, but likely involving triggers, or very easily-accessible pulling).

...and these assume "generally in-tune overtones with the primary 5 valve combinations"...ie open, 2, 1, 1-2, and 2-3.

...and all of this depends on how critical is any particular ensemble's tuning, but - if (??) the desire is to make the chords "ring"...

bloke "Yes, of course 2-4 is miles better than 1-2-3, but it's still miles sharp, and insists on some sort of pull, whereas 2-4 (on a 3+1 comp) or 4-6 (on a non-comp) are 'on'."

Didn’t Yamaha used to sell a rotor 5th valve that could be added to these horns by a simple change of the main tuning crook (or am I remembering something else)?

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:31 pm
...and these assume "generally in-tune overtones ...

...and all of this depends on how critical is any particular ensemble's tuning, but - if (??) the desire is to make the chords "ring"...

These two particular points have been in my mind through the day.

# Overtones aren’t always pitch correct and the compensating valves can then be working from the wrong base.

# Some ensembles are much more closely pitched together than others and a Tuba might or might not overlap much with other instruments. A Brass Band has four Tubas plus a Bass Trombone and sometimes they are playing chords together, in such cases intonation really matters, well it does if you want the best possible sound from the Band.

Application and skill are everything. Personally I like the simplicity of the non-comp instruments and find that they play sufficiently in tune for my humble purposes, but if you play in groups to a even a moderately high level then having a way to ensure correct intonation could becomes an issue.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:58 pm Didn’t Yamaha used to sell a rotor 5th valve that could be added to these horns by a simple change of the main tuning crook (or am I remembering something else)?

only for the euphonium

https://reverb.com/item/40295652-yamaha ... -fantastic

Dropping this link here for good photos of the YEB-381

Our Tuba Tinker (Dan Schultz) did a fantastic job of converting one of these to side-action:

http://www.thevillagetinker.com/yamaha_ ... ersion.htm

IMHO, this is the tuba that Yamaha should have built (but never did).

I felt proud for Dan, when he completed that project.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:21 pm Our Tuba Tinker (Dan Schultz) did a fantastic job of converting one of these to side-action:

http://www.thevillagetinker.com/yamaha_ ... ersion.htm

IMHO, this is the tuba that Yamaha should have built (but never did).

I have a king valveset that shares the same bore. Maybe if I find a 3 valve one or a junker, I could have it converted.

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:55 pm

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:21 pm Our Tuba Tinker (Dan Schultz) did a fantastic job of converting one of these to side-action:

http://www.thevillagetinker.com/yamaha_ ... ersion.htm

IMHO, this is the tuba that Yamaha should have built (but never did).

I have a king valveset that shares the same bore. Maybe if I find a 3 valve one or a junker, I could have it converted.

I posted on your thread in the repair forum, but how's your Eb Buescher coming along?

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:10 pm Fine horns. I used one on my senior recital many years ago, and was dumb enough not to buy it when it was offered to me for sale

I suspect that that tells most people all they need to know.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:32 am

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:42 am Well, I actually do not want a compensating tuba. Non-compensating valves are very appealing to me right now.

Everyone wants what they want, and that's always first, foremost, and to be respected.

I will only report that every time I've played a 15"-bell / modern-pitch / good-valves / 3+1 comp. / E-flat, it made me grin ear-to-ear.

To my mind Bloke has the optimum answer (thank you) and his route would be my first preference, but should one cross my path first then I’d happily settle for the Yamaha - life is full of little compromises and I could live with that one ... as in many other things discussed on-line YMMV applies.