TubaForum.net

Hi-
I sent a demo Big Mouth Brass/BMB 6/4 BAT 4 Piston, 1 Rotor Lacquered BBb tuba in an ABS plastic wheeled hard case, model J765LQ, serial # 0614019 ( on outside of 1st piston casing) via Greyhound from Buffalo to Lubbock back on March 3, 2021. The horn was sent in its hard case and the gig bag and mouthpiece were sent in a cardboard box. On March 8, the cardboard box arrived with bag and mouthpiece, but no tuba. Thanks to Joe S/ Bloke, I was able to reach out to the Greyhound CEO who assigned me a tracer to find the instrument.
Long story short, the instrument had not been found. I made the buyer 'whole' but took a very very bad hit on this.
Having used Greyhound/ The Dog for nearly 50 years, it pains me to say this but DO NOT SHIP musical instruments via bus!
Greyhound has let many folks go and has reduced its routes/service, and the remaining employees--as told to me by a Greyhound employee--are very upset with management. Sadly, with all the small depot stops a route has, cameras/videos are not at every small site, so the instrument might have 'walked'/ 'been taken,' etc.
Believe me, a 6/4 BBb in a hard case..weight 78 lbs... is QUITE visible!
Additionally, Amtrak has curtailed pack age shipping with the COVID situation, so sending horns is a major problem.
Bottom line...DRIVE to pick up/meet half way, etc.
Should this horn be spotted, contact me.
Thank you.
Regards-
Mark Jones
Buffalo
jonestuba@gmail.com

"the virus" has caused me to rethink MANY things, as "the virus" has become "the excuse" for total incompetence.

I believe it's best to drive to buy or sell a tuba, or just take a risk with ANY shipping service.

If you spent the hour that I spent - recently - in a common carrier depot ("truck"...NOT FedEx/UPS depot), they are ABSOLUTE MADHOUSES.

People have been REALLY bored, and have been handed "free money" to spend...not enough to do them any good, but just enough to buy themselves a bunch of - well - "junk".

That having been said, if you drive more than a couple hundred miles on a major freeway, you're behind a major traffic jam or (due to people playing with their phones) wreck...so "driving to buy a tuba" isn't "great", either...and you had better be ready to quickly exit OFF of one of those and drive on the nearly old 2-lane highway.

I would have preferred to have not responded, but - well - I was mentioned.

' sorry that the tuba disappeared.
I have a friend that works for one of the two "shipping services" that most people use.
My friend works in "security".
Trust me: TONS of stuff is ALSO stolen while in the hands of those shippers, and (if only damaged, and not stolen) they often refuse to pay anything.

If I say any more (ie. root causes), I'll get someone complaining about my post.

Joe-
Thanks. All shipping is awful these days ....you are right.
Mark

So sorry, Mark, that's terrible!

Does Clarion cover this?

My last several purchases have been:
* I buy the horn
* I get the tuba insured, while it's at the point of purchase
* The insured tuba is shipped from the point of purchase to my house

I feel better doing it this way (but would guess that the insurance co would find some reason why this isn't allowable, and end in non-payment anyway.... ?)

bloke wrote:. . . "the virus" has become "the excuse" for total incompetence.

.

Very sorry to hear about what happened to you and the tuba, but I’m in 100% agreement with bloke. He hit the nail on the head.

bort wrote:

I feel better doing it this way (but would guess that the insurance co would find some reason why this isn't allowable, and end in non-payment anyway.... ?)

Your insurance agent should be able to tell you on the front end whether this is kosher or not...there may be something in the insurance contract that disallows insuring a tuba that you do not have possession of...

It would seem to me that what is needed is shipping insurance, and all the major carriers offer this, I think. You need pictures of the tuba before it goes into the box, perhaps while you are packing, to show the packing method and then if it is damaged you will need pics of the damage, too, and of the box before removing the tuba. I had one that was damaged in transit by UPS...it was in a box with a million packing peanuts, but there was no frame holding the tuba away from the sides of the box and it shifted (of course!) to one side and UPS managed to dent the box there. Bell was dinged...other tubas I have shipped I have framed up with styrofoam sheets and cubes with packing tape wound around the styrofoam and then that put into the box with packing peanuts. That did work OK. But this was years ago, and I think I used Greyhound and took a risk, because at the time they only insured for about $500 max for such big boxes...

I'm buying a used horn soon, and I'm traveling the 500+ miles to the horn rather than risk shipping, even tho' the horn has a nice hard case...

There just aren't any really good options. Maybe a moving company? Haven't looked into that yet. Prolly wouldn't be cheap...-royjohn

The road trip approach seems fun. Just make it a sightseeing vacation opportunity...

Tubas are much more likely to get damaged shipped in hard cases than in no case at all, but packed with air-filled material in a carton.
- the reason being that a hard case is hard. I’m not joking.

I’m sorry to hear about your horn, Mark - I’ve had issues with Greyhound, but they all eventually worked out.

One big example was a bell I bought from someone in Florida. It went missing for several months, and I thought it was gone for good; only to be discovered in the hold of a bus by a mechanic while it was in the garage for repairs (they called me - fortunately the shipper put my telephone number on the box). Your horn MAY still turn up (at least let’s hope ).

With that said, I’ll only ship (or receive) at terminals in major cities, that have dedicated and locked GPX storage rooms. The nearest one to me is about 80 miles away, one way.

With that said, I’ve driven 2,000+ miles (round trip) to buy horns that others would call “junk”.

Sorry to hear it, Mark. That is a real bummer.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:03 pm So sorry, Mark, that's terrible!

Does Clarion cover this?

My last several purchases have been:
* I buy the horn
* I get the tuba insured, while it's at the point of purchase
* The insured tuba is shipped from the point of purchase to my house

I feel better doing it this way (but would guess that the insurance co would find some reason why this isn't allowable, and end in non-payment anyway.... ?)

Bort, will Clarion do this? I like the sound of this but... I would be saying "I own a tuba... but it is at some guy's house..."

Mark, was the tracing able to tell you which station was the last one to have handled it? It might be good to know in which state it is likely to have "wandered off"...

greenbean wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:42 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:03 pm So sorry, Mark, that's terrible!

Does Clarion cover this?

My last several purchases have been:
* I buy the horn
* I get the tuba insured, while it's at the point of purchase
* The insured tuba is shipped from the point of purchase to my house

I feel better doing it this way (but would guess that the insurance co would find some reason why this isn't allowable, and end in non-payment anyway.... ?)

Bort, will Clarion do this? I like the sound of this but... I would be saying "I own a tuba... but it is at some guy's house..."

I just checked ... I emailed Clarion a few years ago when I bought my PT-7, and it was being shipped to me from Venezuela. It *did* get damaged during transit, and I could have processed a claim... But the shipping damage and deductible were about the same ($500), so I didn't bother.

Here is what Clarion told me in 2018. I seem to remember their exclusions being very few, and for unlikely reasons like nuclear hazards, war, pollutants, and governmental action (which, in the case of flying a tuba from Venezuela to the US, could have actually been a thing... ). Typically in insurance-speak, "loss" means things getting damaged, or inability to go and do your job and earn money because your stuff got busted up, and not literally "losing my stuff". But it seems from this email (and I think I called them too?) that if it's insured before it rides the dog, and it goes missing for months from the dog ... That it would be covered. Especially if the dog says "WTF I don't know where your tuba went either". A filed police report at the point of missing (empty box is hella suspicious) seems like it would only boost your case.

Thank you for your message. Once you have purchased the instrument, it will be your property and able to be covered on your policy. We will need you to email us to request to add the instrument along with a dealer appraisal or bill of sale showing the description and value of the instrument.

Please know that your policy does not have a shipping or transit exclusion on your policy, meaning that you are covered for all covered causes of loss while the instrument is on its way to you. I am attaching a copy of your policy’s coverage form. The exclusions are on pages 2-3 of this document. Thank you!

greenbean wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:51 pm Mark, was the tracing able to tell you which station was the last one to have handled it? It might be good to know in which state it is likely to have "wandered off"...

No...

Three Valves wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:43 pm The road trip approach seems fun. Just make it a sightseeing vacation opportunity...

I've heard that some sellers will provide you with a free sammich if you make the road trip. Sounds worth it to me.

I hope the horn turns up.

One thing I learned about Greyhound in 2009, when I was shipping something from Abilene, TX to Cookeville, TN (just a couple hours from Lubbock) is that your best ability to ship a package with them is to go through a major hub. Lubbock would probably be in a similar situation as Abilene in terms of the size of the station. It seems like Greyhound stations are not always in the best areas of town, as we had homeless/panhandlers right around when we shipped back then.

Abilene was not a major hub, and I remember to ship the case, my friend with a truck had to take me at 11pm at night, because they were closed most of the day. The worker didn't even know they shipped and couldn't really work a computer well, and was there by himself. After a couple of weeks, and no one answering the phone at the Cookeville location, I called their corporate number and learned that Cookeville was also a regional location, and the sole worker there was on vacation, and weren't receiving any busses or delivering packages. The package arrived, and was sitting there.

I would suspect, that with my experiences, and the likely high turnover that Bloke mentioned at these type of jobs, they get a huge package, and they don't know what to do with it at these satellite sites, as they are probably trying to get everyone off the bus unloaded, and don't have a standard process for a weird, large package that they probably have never seen. I have heard of these being left to the side as they load passengers and luggage, and it walked away.

Did they ever get tracking? Even back in 2009, they were able to tell me the route and bus transfers that it was going to take. I would suspect that if it was stolen out of the box, it is probably sitting in a pawn shop not too far from one of the stations.

Best of luck finding it and I will be on the lookout.

Old thread, but...

Yes, Clarion is an all-hazards inland-marine policy that protects scheduled items from all losses, and the only one that one should really note of Clarion's exclusions is "vermin". They don't cover violins that are attacked by termites or mice.

The question is: Does the insured own the instrument at the time? If the shipper is insured, then I would put a deposit down on an instrument I'm considering, which is then shipped to me for trial. That the deposit is the full purchase price is no issue--the instrument is still owned by the seller until it is accepted.

But if it's a private sale, the buyer is usually the owner by the time the tuba ships. In that case, you have to get the insurance beforehand, and that will require an appraisal. Since my Clarion insurance provides replacement coverage, I only need to document replacement value of a comparable instrument. For my Hirsbrunner, Herr Hirsbrunner provided a letter with a value on it. For my Eastman (and for my Yamaha), a catalog page showing suggested retail price was sufficient. My B&S needed an appraisal letter from some bloke in Memphis, aimed at the cost to replace with a comparable instrument. You must have that before Clarion will given you a binder.

When I've shipped instruments I had for sale, I made sure they were insured, and didn't cash any checks or accept any payments until it arrived. Had it gone astray, I would have claimed it on insurance, given the buyer his check back, and kept the insurance payout (which, if I was selling it, was what I wanted anyway).

Rick "finding that Covid has given service providers of all kinds the excuse to provide the service they have always wanted to provide, which is none at all" Denney

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:03 pm But if it's a private sale, the buyer is usually the owner by the time the tuba ships. In that case, you have to get the insurance beforehand, and that will require an appraisal. Since my Clarion insurance provides replacement coverage, I only need to document replacement value of a comparable instrument. For my Hirsbrunner, Herr Hirsbrunner provided a letter with a value on it. For my Eastman (and for my Yamaha), a catalog page showing suggested retail price was sufficient. My B&S needed an appraisal letter from some bloke in Memphis, aimed at the cost to replace with a comparable instrument. You must have that before Clarion will given you a binder.

This is exactly what I've done in the past. I haven't had to file a claim, but it was good to know that I would have been covered if anything would have happened.

The only time I came close to filing a claim was when my PT7 suffered a little damage when shipping from Venezuela to Minnesota in a gig bag only (a remarkably small amount of damage all things considered). I didn't make a claim though, because the cost to repair was less than my deductible.

BTW, I feel like hell for @bisontuba... that's a major loss and sense of hopelessness. It could have happened to any of us, and Mark, I'm sorry it happened to you. Thanks for sharing your caution with us.

Even after all this time, I suspect this instrument is sitting in a back corner of some stupid room at some place that serves as a Greyhound station or is a Greyhound station.
This sort of thing makes me really angry, and it’s why I don’t have any employees.