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Just to get this old post repost out of the way... talk about 4 vs 5 valves for a CC tuba.

I'm not going to lie, I learned on a 5-valve CC tuba (with the long 5th valve configuration). Anything else just feels weird. I'm trying my damnedest to make it work with 4 valves on my Alex 163, but it's hard to retrain my fingers and my brain to get used to it.

I doubt it'll be any time soon, but I may eventually need to be talked out of adding a fifth valve. Actually, when I bought this tuba from Lee, he was considering doing that already... so it's not out of line... but non-essential.

On the flip side, the response on this tuba is exceptional, and I wonder if having "only" 4 valves is a contributing factor to that.

My first thought is: Don't mess it up. Buy an additional 5 valve tuba to compliment your 4 valve tuba. If you have a jewel of a 4 valve, those are hard to find - keep it that way.

I've been working on a challenge for myself - Playing the Snedecor etudes in tune without any slide manipulation on my Gnagey CC. It just about works with 5 valves. I couldn't do it with only 4 (I think - but I guess I don't know if any intonation tendencies would change if the 5th were removed).

Were I to add a 2nd slide kicker like I had on my PT6 I think I could get away with only 4 valves and still have to do minimal slide pulling outside of the kicker. I rarely had to use my 5th valve on the PT6 because I had the ability to play 2-4 in tune. The low Eb and D were BETTER with the 5th valve, but it wasn't necessary. Low Db would have been unworkable without three hands if I didn't have the 5th valve.

I Have played almost exclusively 4 valve CC tubas for 30 years as my main tuba. Both of my main Cerveny tubas (the piggy and the 601) both have Low F's that are very close to being in tune playing 1-2-4, and An Eb that sounds good when played 1-2-3-4 and just letting the pitch raise a little bit.
Twice in 30 years my symphony has played a piece that had a low D or Db. The first time, It was a long, sustained low D that I knew I wouldn't be able to fake. I called Matt walters and he have some 835 cerveny inner and outer tubing. I build extensions for my 4th vavle slide to give me an in tune D when I play 1234

The second time it was a pixar concert. A bunch of Low D's and even Db's, and some of them were at the end of scales. I knew the extensions wouldn't do the trick, so I was considering playing the concert on my BBb tuba. But then... Tabor put a Cerveny valve (795) up for sale on the frankentuba board. I was the the perfect configuration, and I added that to some valve tubing for a miraphone 1291, and built a modular valve section that got me through the concert.

Fast forward another 18 months, and I purchased a amati 68, which was the horn that the cerveny valve was actually intended for. I cut the leadpipe and installed it in the Amati, giving me my 1st permanent 5 valve CC tuba at the age of 50 years old

The moral of the story? There is a LOT of music you can play on a 4 valve CC, but there are times when the 5 valve horn is very handy

People are writing so many dang low-D's, these days, that I wish mine had six.

wait... Doesn't your thor have 6?

or was that the joke?

LeMark wrote:wait... Doesn't your thor have 6?

or was that the joke?

No, it does not...
I have to reach over for the #4 slide (for "low D") just like every other C-teeyuber player.

It would be really nice, though, not only for "low D" (which would be 6-5-3-4) but also that in-the-cracks B-natural thing (which would be 6-4).

Weird. At one point I thought you owned a CC tuba with a 1/4 step valve. Am I imagining that?

LeMark wrote:Weird. At one point I thought you owned a CC tuba with a 1/4 step valve. Am I imagining that?

The 184 - which eventually became the property of Ron Bishop - featured interchangeable long-whole-step/long-half-step slides 5th rotor.

I put that together c. 1979, when I had to play the opera, "Love Of Three Oranges" in the pit.

that's not the one I was thinking of. my brain must be failing me.

bloke wrote:

LeMark wrote:Weird. At one point I thought you owned a CC tuba with a 1/4 step valve. Am I imagining that?

The 184 - which eventually became the property of Ron Bishop - featured interchangeable long-whole-step/long-half-step slides 5th rotor.

I put that together c. 1979, when I had to play the opera, "Love Of Three Oranges" in the pit.

I thought that 2165 you owned had a quarter tone valve (with a little curly pigtail pipe)?

Doc wrote:My first thought is: Don't mess it up. Buy an additional 5 valve tuba to compliment your 4 valve tuba. If you have a jewel of a 4 valve, those are hard to find - keep it that way.

So true. I doubt I'd be able to bring myself to do it. Only thing that makes me question it is that Lee had really considered it himself, and I trust his opinion that it'd end up just fine in the end.

But, it's like living in a house that needs renovations. As soon as you move in, the amount of renovation you are willing to do diminishes exponentially. The more I play this tuba, the less I'll ever change about it.

bort2.0 wrote:

bloke wrote:

LeMark wrote:Weird. At one point I thought you owned a CC tuba with a 1/4 step valve. Am I imagining that?

The 184 - which eventually became the property of Ron Bishop - featured interchangeable long-whole-step/long-half-step slides 5th rotor.

I put that together c. 1979, when I had to play the opera, "Love Of Three Oranges" in the pit.

I thought that 2165 you owned had a quarter tone valve (with a little curly pigtail pipe)?

that's what I thought too!

The 2165's 6th rotor's circuit isn't anything close to a 1/4 tone.
It's just a "tuning" valve, to address (at the touch of a lever) all of the sharp pitches encountered with that 2165/2265/6450 bugle.

I believe it's new owner is awaiting its return, whereby it's been on very extended loan...

That was my "any-music-whereby-I-wished-to-thump-the-patrons-in-the-chest" tuba. (Copland Fanfare...Tchaik 4, Shosty 5, etc...)

Open G was flat, but - if the thing got warmed up - that G was within easy lipping range.

so I'm not crazy, you did have a 6 valve CC tuba!

Bloke enjoyed making me think I've lost my freaking mind

LeMark wrote:so I'm not crazy, you did have a 6 valve CC tuba!

Bloke enjoyed making me think I've lost my freaking mind

semantics...
That tuba featured 6 valves...but I never used that valve as a "valve".
I used it as a push-button version of a main slide tug.

It was a 21mm rotor (past the large side of the main slide of a 2165...YET with a 6540 main slide and 6450 dogleg) with a circuit SO short, that it was a solid loop which was SHORTER THAN a #2 slide bow.

I don't have any issues with my rotary Conn CC. It only has 4 valves. All four down, and a pull on the first slide the Low Db pops right out...provided I know which end of the instrument to blow into that day...

DandyZ629 wrote:I don't have any issues with my rotary Conn CC. It only has 4 valves. All four down, and a pull on the first slide the Low Db pops right out...provided I know which end of the instrument to blow into that day...

Can you post a photo of your tuba?! I chased my tail to find a rotary Conn CC tuba for almost 10 years, before finally giving up. Still like to look at them... can you tell us about it?

bort2.0 wrote:

DandyZ629 wrote:I don't have any issues with my rotary Conn CC. It only has 4 valves. All four down, and a pull on the first slide the Low Db pops right out...provided I know which end of the instrument to blow into that day...

Can you post a photo of your tuba?! I chased my tail to find a rotary Conn CC tuba for almost 10 years, before finally giving up. Still like to look at them... can you tell us about it?

Here it be! I don't know a ton about it other than it was made in 1923. Rotors come out the top. Roughly an 18" bell, about 36" tall. Bows are large. It's a 5/4 for sure. Bore is .810". It's a bit of an airhog, but doesn't like to be forced either. Especially in the lower register. If I relax into it, the horn just roars. I haven't gotten the sound to break up. Like at all. It's actually kind of funny. I definitely want to know more about this thing. It's unique to be sure.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/eq8quk444wrd1 ... 9.jpg?dl=0

DandyZ629 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:15 pm

bort2.0 wrote:

DandyZ629 wrote:I don't have any issues with my rotary Conn CC. It only has 4 valves. All four down, and a pull on the first slide the Low Db pops right out...provided I know which end of the instrument to blow into that day...

Can you post a photo of your tuba?! I chased my tail to find a rotary Conn CC tuba for almost 10 years, before finally giving up. Still like to look at them... can you tell us about it?

Here it be! I don't know a ton about it other than it was made in 1923. Rotors come out the top. Roughly and 18" bell, about 36" tall. Bows are large. It's a 5/4 for sure. Bore is .810". It's a bit of an airhog, but doesn't like to be forced either. Especially in the lower register. If I relax into it, the horn just roars. I haven't gotten the sound to break up. Like at all. It's actually kind of funny. I definitely want to know more about this thing. It's unique to be sure.

Sounds awesome! I don't see it though... if you tried posting a photo, can you try again please?