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Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:29 pm
by Crymzon1980
Months ago I bought an Oswal 4 valve Euph ( imported from India ), but it has some issues: Instrument was pitched in A instead of Bb, meaning the tuning slide needed to be trimmed. I did get a partial refund for the defect, and eventually got some of the main tuning slide trimmed, but it's still quite a few cents short of playing properly for normal play, and yes the tuning slide is pushed all the way in and still a bit flat :| Since money has been a bit tight, it's just been sitting in the case and wondering what to do with it. I wouldn't mind getting it worked on again to have it in the proper key, or sell it just to someone who could use it for a project. TBH I don't think it would be as usable as an A ♮ Euphonium, so i'd like some opinions on the fate of this instrument.
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:40 pm
by bloke
just how flat?
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:20 am
by Crymzon1980
A semitone down
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:59 am
by Crymzon1980
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:40 pmjust how flat?
Checked the tuner, it's about $1.32 flat, with the main tuning slide all the way in
So my open C is pitched in B
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:51 am
by the elephant
You would need to trim about four inches from each slide leg, or 8" from the bugle to move it up that far. That is more than a half step flat, it's nearly three-quarters of a step flat. (A half-step in pitch would be 100¢, and a six-inch reduction of overall length, or 3" per slide leg.) Being 132¢ is probably going to ruin the scale once it has been trimmed.
If the instrument plays in tune with itself at this pitch level then each slide would have to be cut, too. If each valved pitch is rather sharp then just cutting the main slide might work. Cutting out four inches from each slide leg would put it in tune with the main slide pulled out about .5" or .75" or something like that.
But that is a LOT to remove from a euphonium.
Good luck with this, sir.
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:01 am
by bloke
Are you saying that it is even FLAT for A-natural?
How cylindrical are the two "legs" of the euphonium's bottom bow?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313642342785
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:46 pm
by Crymzon1980
the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:51 am
You would need to trim about four inches from each slide leg, or 8" from the bugle to move it up that far. That is more than a half step flat, it's nearly three-quarters of a step flat. (A half-step in pitch would be 100¢, and a six-inch reduction of overall length, or 3" per slide leg.) Being 132¢ is probably going to ruin the scale once it has been trimmed.
If the instrument plays in tune with itself at this pitch level then each slide would have to be cut, too. If each valved pitch is rather sharp then just cutting the main slide might work. Cutting out four inches from each slide leg would put it in tune with the main slide pulled out about .5" or .75" or something like that.
But that is a LOT to remove from a euphonium.
Good luck with this, sir.
I have had the main tuning slide trimmed but honestly don't remember how much exactly got trimmed, but now close to the first set of weld braces, i would assume at least 2" on each side. So I was testing my open notes earlier, and to correct my earlier tonage the numbers is now about 30-50 cents flat instead of 132c LOL , and yes the valved notes play sharp if set all in so they're pulled to the correct length. As I looked at the tuning slide again, they trimmed both the legs and the curve in the slide.
This is what it originally looks like
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/T1MAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:00 pm
by Crymzon1980
Measurements for outer diameter of main tuning slide's legs: 0.7875" and 0.5955"
Measurements for euph's bottom bow diameters before the curve: 2.5200" and 1.6400"
It could be used as an A natural Euphonium, but I'd rather not LOL, and the legs of the bottom bow are both very round, i don't see signs of ovalness.
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:22 pm
by the elephant
He means how cylindrical are the ends, versus how tapered. If there is a lot of taper in the ends of the bow it is hard to trim and have it fit back on the horn. If the ends are fairly cylindrical some trimming and then re-tapering of the ends can sometimes be done, but that is pretty expensive work for an inexpensive horn. Still, it might be a way to remove some of the extra length…
A rough guess on how much more will have to be cut out is about 1.5" per slide leg or ends of the bottom bow. (3" total to raise the horn 50¢ in pitch.) That horn must have been ten feet long instead of nine. I wonder how that happened and where the overly-long branch is. Probably the main slide, but who knows? These Indian horns can be *wildly* inconsistent. I think your horn used to be branded as "Tri-Star" about ten years ago.
How are the valve action and the slide "pull"?
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:35 pm
by Crymzon1980
the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:22 pm
He means how cylindrical are the ends, versus how tapered. If there is a lot of taper in the ends of the bow it is hard to trim and have it fit back on the horn. If the ends are fairly cylindrical some trimming and then re-tapering of the ends can sometimes be done, but that is pretty expensive work for an inexpensive horn. Still, it might be a way to remove some of the extra length…
A rough guess on how much more will have to be cut out is about 1.5" per slide leg or ends of the bottom bow. (3" total to raise the horn 50¢ in pitch.) That horn must have been ten feet long instead of nine. I wonder how that happened and where the overly-long branch is. Probably the main slide, but who knows? These Indian horns can be *wildly* inconsistent. I think your horn used to be branded as "Tri-Star" about ten years ago.
How are the valve action and the slide "pull"?
The valve action is actually pretty decent and the slides pull out well. I have also bought an Eb 3/4 Tuba from the same seller before and it was better overall and had it a bit over a year, plan on getting a better mouthpiece for it.
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:14 am
by Crymzon1980
Welp, I ended up just donating that euphonium to a Salvation Army up in Springfield, MO. A buddy of mine there says they can make some use of it even with its flaws, so I was happy to send it to a new home!
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:03 pm
by bloke
If you would like to hear about an ironic and damned shame, a friend of mine – (wealthy/retired/beat the horribly stacked odds against him with an almost-always-deadly cancer) has been on an “art kick“ for about a decade, just turned a Yamaha four valve euphonium into an ugly lamp and sold it.
He also recently re-purposed a damned nice King Flugabone.
————
Oh well… I know of another person who bought multi-hundreds-of-dollars first-edition leather-bound books simply to harvest the particular leather (color/grain/age) on their covers to restore grips on Confederate swords. Of course, the Confederate swords were worth tens of thousands of dollars.
Re: Euphonium needs to be trimmed to play in Bb, still quite a few cents flat :|
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:08 am
by DonO.
I guess whoever ends up playing it will have to learn key of A fingerings!
Seriously though, if they just want someone to play solo Christmas carols alongside of the red kettle, it would be fine for that. Just don’t try to play a duet or any other kind of ensemble! You don’t have to worry about being in tune with someone else when you’re solo.
