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The new Kaiser BBb tuba, built according to old German craftsmanship by master Stephan Schmidt from Markneukirchen. Together with my friend Sven Kock from the Philharmonic Orchestra Bielefeld, we put the instrument through its paces. Now a new leadpipe is being fitted. The tuba is equipped with a fully conical valve machine. The sound is really dark and super open in the low end.

www.hsm-brass.de

https://youtu.be/CLkY_p9kbsI

The photos on Facebook looks amazing! And what a dark sound!

Wow that's dark.

Nice playing as always

nice playing and nice instrument!

sidebar topic:
different people’s ideas of what words mean, when attempting to describe sounds - ie. “dark
===========
No words can either be right or wrong, because we usually use visual words to describe sounds, and doing so means that it’s totally up to individual interpretation.

me…??
I have always used the word “dark“ to describe a sound which doesn’t offer very many audible higher overtones, such as a 6/4 American style tuba or sousaphone (at mezzo forte), and…

I have always use the word “bright“ to describe sound which in which there are quite a few audible higher overtones present. To me, most of the tall European kaiser tubas are in the “bright” family (though not really those big wide-belled Cerveny ones, which sound more like sousaphones and American 6/4 tubas).

I’m not remarking whether one type of sound or the other is better - in my view, but just identifying how I personally label them. With more context clues offered by higher overtones, though, I believe the German tall kaiser tubas - with semi-conservative sized bell throats (and other tubas that offer the same sort of resonance) are a little bit easier for patrons to pick out of the corporate sound, as they tend to offer more aural context clues. I also believe they require less player effort for the sound to seem quite loud (for all the very same reasons), and - in those very resonant super-reverb European halls, I believe they function best for all of the same reasons as well.

Just to be clear, I really like the sound of that instrument (again: and the way it’s played) - which I would probably label as “bright”, and I also like the sound of many “dark”-sounding tubas.

Maybe (not related to light or color…) kaiser b-tubas tend to sound “teutonic” and “deep”…(??)

Of course, this is all a matter of degree - as virtually no tuba is going to be as “bright“-sounding as a bass trombone…
…other than (maybe..??) a Miraphone 84 with a TU-23 stuck in it.

END OF SIDEBAR

Incredible tuba!
Incredible playing!

Check out the catalog of tubas for this maker:
https://www.hsm-brass.de/tuba_prospekt.pdf

I need new pants...

Wow, what an awesome sound. Thanks for sharing

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:47 pm
sidebar topic:
...I have always use the word “bright“ to describe sound which in which there are quite a few audible higher overtones present. To me, most of the tall European kaiser tubas are in the “bright” family (though not really those big wide-belled Cerveny ones, which sound more like sousaphones and American 6/4 tubas)...
END OF SIDEBAR

In the Netherlands we describe this as "roundness" or "warmth" of the sound. A typical European kaiser will sound dark but less round or less warm. A typical American style 6/4 will also sound dark but more round or warmer.

How about simply, "Diffuse" or "Non Diffuse" sounding. I believe this horn, whether dark deep warm round or whatever you label it is much more "diffuse" than any Kaiser tuba I've heard before. It almost sounds like an American style BAT to my ears (all words to describe them notwithstanding).

I know this is several years old. But, by chance do you @Kontrabasstuba or anyone else recall how the other HSM tubas are?

The front action piston BBb, Model 20/07, is intriguing. The way that tuba keeps the necessary length to stay in the key of BBb after the valve section like its rotary sibling. Many tubas of the past, even some models that can be purchased new, tend to add length with the lead pipe. Assuming the conical expansion of the tubing is minimal at best. Tubas that can be bought new for example like the B&S 3301 (3302 is the 5 valve version)* and Wessex TB570 ‘Excelsior’ are models that immediately come to mind for me. Although I guess there are still some 3/4 or smaller tubas that have loong lead pipes too. And I know that technically the Excelsior is based on a much much older design.


*Also know as F. Schmidt or VMI 3301 (3302 5 valve version) and the B&S pt-2p

...At some point in hte past there was a link to a catalogue that had a picture of the Excelsior's ancestor... Well I can no longer find that link after searching for it quite a bit...

PlayTheTuba wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 8:25 pm I know this is several years old. But, by chance do you @Kontrabasstuba or anyone else recall how the other HSM tubas are?

The front action piston BBb, Model 20/07, is intriguing. The way that tuba keeps the necessary length to stay in the key of BBb after the valve section like its rotary sibling. Many tubas of the past, even some models that can be purchased new, tend to add length with the lead pipe. Assuming the conical expansion of the tubing is minimal at best. Tubas that can be bought new for example like the B&S 3301 (3302 is the 5 valve version)* and Wessex TB570 ‘Excelsior’ are models that immediately come to mind for me. Although I guess there are still some 3/4 or smaller tubas that have loong lead pipes too. And I know that technically the Excelsior is based on a much much older design.


*Also know as F. Schmidt or VMI 3301 (3302 5 valve version) and the B&S pt-2p

...At some point in hte past there was a link to a catalogue that had a picture of the Excelsior's ancestor... Well I can no longer find that link after searching for it quite a bit...

Yes of course! I Stephan Schmidt is one of the last, who made EVERYTHING by hand and all of his Instruments are 100% made in Voigtland/Markneukirchen.

His Instruments have soul, because of the material he use. I like that :-)

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:53 pm Incredible tuba!
Incredible playing!

Check out the catalog of tubas for this maker:
https://www.hsm-brass.de/tuba_prospekt.pdf

I need new pants...

Ok.. How does the F/BBb double tuba work? Flip a switch and it goes from F to Bb compensating!?!?

gocsick wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:52 pm Ok.. How does the F/BBb double tuba work? Flip a switch and it goes from F to Bb compensating!?!?

Looks like it works like a double horn: the main rotors are doubled, with a valve to select whether you use the F side or the Bb side. I can't find enough valve tubing to really be sure, though.

P@rick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:07 am

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:47 pm
sidebar topic:
...I have always use the word “bright“ to describe sound which in which there are quite a few audible higher overtones present. To me, most of the tall European kaiser tubas are in the “bright” family (though not really those big wide-belled Cerveny ones, which sound more like sousaphones and American 6/4 tubas)...
END OF SIDEBAR

In the Netherlands we describe this as "roundness" or "warmth" of the sound. A typical European kaiser will sound dark but less round or less warm. A typical American style 6/4 will also sound dark but more round or warmer.

excellent...measuring not only width, but heat.

jtm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:49 pm

gocsick wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:52 pm Ok.. How does the F/BBb double tuba work? Flip a switch and it goes from F to Bb compensating!?!?

Looks like it works like a double horn: the main rotors are doubled, with a valve to select whether you use the F side or the Bb side. I can't find enough valve tubing to really be sure, though.

Looking at the description, it mentions Bb compensating. So I guess the air first goes through the F slides and it loops back through the rotors and length is added with the Bb slides. A true double tuba would have dedicated slides for F and Bb

Depends on definition of „double tuba“ and I do not know what the overall definition for tuba is. But for french horns it is clear, and that should/could also apply to tuba.

Any combination of 2 pitches in one instrument, usually F (same length as an F tuba) and Bb, would be called a double (french) horn. If the valve slides of each pitch are separated and have the full length such horn would be called full double horn, now usually double horn. If for the lower pitch, the missing valve slide lengths are just added such horn would be called a compensation double horn (in Germany in the eastern part „kombiniertes Doppelhorn“ aka combined double).

One of the first doubles where compensated double horns (Kruspe Modell Gumbert, later also Wendler which was in the 30-ties of the last century as famous the B&S F tuba today…). Although compensated doubles were lighter as full ones and especially high hornist only needed the lower F side only for a few areas, they came out of fashion mainly due to some very bad and crapy copies (the 2nd valve slide on the F side is too short and can not be tuned and hence has to be very precise) and the F side CAN have some stuffiness as the sound has to travel 2 times through the valve block, putting the compensated doubles into inferior/ beginner instruments. Interestingly, some of the best triple horns (Paxman, Schmid) still have a compensating F/B setup….

By that, all british style tuba are Eb/Bb and Bb/FF compensating double tuba but i have no idea how many also use the 4th, 6th, 8th or 9th partial of the lower side on such tuba as a french horn player would to (especially 6th partial).

Best

Chris

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:59 pm

P@rick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:07 am

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:47 pm
sidebar topic:
...I have always use the word “bright“ to describe sound which in which there are quite a few audible higher overtones present. To me, most of the tall European kaiser tubas are in the “bright” family (though not really those big wide-belled Cerveny ones, which sound more like sousaphones and American 6/4 tubas)...
END OF SIDEBAR

In the Netherlands we describe this as "roundness" or "warmth" of the sound. A typical European kaiser will sound dark but less round or less warm. A typical American style 6/4 will also sound dark but more round or warmer.

excellent...measuring not only width, but heat.

Indeed a very complicated measurement system we use ... almost as complicated as the imperial measurement system

I admit to never having played a full-blown double tuba, but - as someone else pointed out -all of the three plus one compensating instruments are basically double tubas, but the longer instrument is only used for just a very few pitches. I guess it could be argued that most horn players only use the F side of a double horn for just a few pitches as well.
[Insert shoulder shrug here.]

This from a piston double tuba

Es ist offensichtlich, dass die Werkstatt nur Tuben für Amateure und Studenten herstellt, da dort keine Kontrabasstuben in C-Länge aufgeführt sind.

...


This kaiser is really handsome...

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:56 pm Es ist offensichtlich, dass die Werkstatt nur Tuben für Amateure und Studenten herstellt, da dort keine Kontrabasstuben in C-Länge aufgeführt sind.

...


This kaiser is really handsome...

Here's the sound check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCnN2wKDqvM