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Since I'm "old", I've heard "I've got this kid..." hundreds of times from band directors.
Suddenly, there's a new student (or quickly-progressing student) who could REALLY use AN instrument or a BETTER instrument...but the band director doesn't have one, or doesn't have the resources (whether band parent club money, school money, or school system money) to buy what they would like to buy for "this kid" (whose parents have no resources).

Before anyone lectures me about "but my principal.../but our rules.../but our budget.../but covid.../but whatever", please consider what I'm suggesting:

RATHER THAN being reactive to a sudden PUPIL situation (ie. "I've got this kid"), work to be LONG-TERM proactive (ie. "I've got this INSTRUMENT").

Conceptualize what you - as a band director - would like to have available AND IN GOOD WORKING ORDER - when "this kid" shows up to play it, and then - over time - work to HAVE that collection of instruments, and WHETHER OR NOT "this kid" happens to be there at any given point in time.

If you want a bass trombone in your band, make it a long-term goal to BUY ONE (or have the jacked-up one - that you already own - refurbished) and - sure enough - "this kid" will magically be there to play it. The same goes for a "collection of tubas, euphoniums, bassoons (nice-playing PLASTIC!), oboes (nice-playing full-system PLASTIC !), baritone saxophones, (maybe...??) a soprano saxophone, and E-flat soprano clarinet, etc., etc...

>> Things you do NOT need are expensive and hopelessly-cracked wooden oboes and/or expensive and rotted-out-boot-joint wooden bassoons, as (reality, here...) people who are loaned things (particularly when they are loaned gov't-owned things) WILL NOT take care of them as well as someone who personally owns something, with the people who take the BEST care of things being adults who had to earn the money to buy those things (none of which is the case with school-owned instruments, so PLASTIC (good) bassoon, and PLASTIC (good) oboes...and YES, there ARE (actually...) really good plastic clarinets...IF they are paired with superb mouthpieces and reeds. <<

Further, if "this kid" isn't in your band "this year", keep such instruments stored away in a locked room, so that they aren't pulled out (by Beaver Cleaver or Eddie Haskell) and goofed up or stolen...and check them - at least once annually - to discover whether they are still in ready-to-go condition.

Even a "low C bass clarinet" (if you really think you need one... ??)...Now that JP makes an amazing (plastic) copy of a Selmer, Paris, there's no excuse not to make semi-long-term plans to (even) have one of those in your collection...and don't rule out "used". If your school or school system won't buy "used", those "outstanding condition used instruments" are the instruments for your band parent organization to acquire (ex: a really nice plastic Fox 41 bassoon for $3000 - instead of $6000 for "brand new in the box").

Am I stupid biased towards JP (John Packer Musical Instruments) ? You bet I am...
I like their 164 model double horn (amazing/cheap), their best oboe (yes: plastic - amazing/cheap), their Rath series bass trombones (and all the other Rath-series trombones), their best alto sax, and (actually) their cheapest tenor sax...along with the really well-made tubas/euphoniums (which are known here). ...and (though I'm not a "marching enthusiast nor a Yamah-enthusiast", their Yama-like marching brass and sousaphone are quite fine (as well as LOW PRICED), with the most very much like Yama and the sousaphone very much like King.

Finally...
Try to not allow your "my personal instrument is the _______" snobbery to nudge you into over-buying (price, or even quality) for that group of instruments. ie. Your band would be a bit "unbalanced" (equipment-quality-wise) with a section of $89 Walmart clarinets and a section of $25,000 6/4 tubas.

anyway (summarizing)...
- LONG-TERM (not "emergency") acquisition goals
- "I've got this HORN" mentality, RATHER THAN "I've got this kid" mentality

Good athletic directors/coaches think the same way when buying training equipment.

The idea is to have equipment available to support the individual as they develop as well as support the program.

Storage costs are typically far lower than acquisition costs.

Amen to all!

I couldn't agree more, but that was not my usual experience in dealing with school administrators and business managers. Ca. 1984, I was the head band director of a large high school program (160 out of 600 high school students were in band). I had several seriously talented tuba players who were still having to play on some old Conn 12J's that I had bought years before, who just couldn't compete with the kids from larger schools at the all-state level playing new Miraphones, Meinl's, etc. About that time, the Yamaha 641 became available and was very reasonably priced although more expensive than what we normally bought, so I put one in the new budget. It was a fairly well off school district with no budget problems and low taxes, but a new supt. who was determined to be a "hero/problem solver" (read: micro manager) to look good for the school board. Actual conversation:

Him: Justify this purchase
Me: (See explanation above).
Him: If we do that, we might as well buy the Ag kids the best show calves around (the school didn't buy calves). I can't allow this.
Me: Next year, I will have 11 tuba players and only 10 tubas.
Him: Oh, you NEED it. That's different. (signs off on it)
Me: What?...
Him: What will you do if 7 new high school tuba players move in next year?
Me: I'll ask for 7 more tubas.
Him: No, you'll teach them to play clarinet.
Me:
Me: No, I won't waste 3-5 years of them being trained to play tuba.
When a friend called to tell me that supt. was moving to his school, I literally danced in the street.

Ask me sometime about my "how much does it cost to fix a drum" story with this same idiot.

Jperry1466 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:32 pm I couldn't agree more, but that was not my usual experience in dealing with school administrators and business managers. Ca. 1984, I was the head band director of a large high school program (160 out of 600 high school students were in band). I had several seriously talented tuba players who were still having to play on some old Conn 12J's that I had bought years before, who just couldn't compete with the kids from larger schools at the all-state level playing new Miraphones, Meinl's, etc. About that time, the Yamaha 641 became available and was very reasonably priced although more expensive than what we normally bought, so I put one in the new budget. It was a fairly well off school district with no budget problems and low taxes, but a new supt. who was determined to be a "hero/problem solver" (read: micro manager) to look good for the school board. Actual conversation:

Him: Justify this purchase
Me: (See explanation above).
Him: If we do that, we might as well buy the Ag kids the best show calves around (the school didn't buy calves). I can't allow this.
Me: Next year, I will have 11 tuba players and only 10 tubas.
Him: Oh, you NEED it. That's different. (signs off on it)
Me: What?...
Him: What will you do if 7 new high school tuba players move in next year?
Me: I'll ask for 7 more tubas.
Him: No, you'll teach them to play clarinet.
Me:
Me: No, I won't waste 3-5 years of them being trained to play tuba.
When a friend called to tell me that supt. was moving to his school, I literally danced in the street.

Ask me sometime about my "how much does it cost to fix a drum" story with this same idiot.

Was this dolt a coach prior to entering administration?

Him: What will you do if 7 new high school tuba players move in next year?
Me: I'll ask for 7 more tubas.
Him: No, you'll teach them to play clarinet.

I actually found a great deal of humor in that exchange.

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:15 am Was this dolt a coach prior to entering administration?

Surprisingly, no, he wasn't a coach. I don't know what or if he ever taught, but he was, in fact, the best assistant principal (discipline, etc.) I ever saw. He became the principal, then supt., and wanted to make a name as a "problem solver" and had a habit of creating a problem so he could look like he fixed it. The board just kept promoting him until they found a job he couldn't do (Peter Principle).

As to the drum story, I had a set of old Ludwig stainless steel marching drums with no wood shells that were badly beaten up over years, so much so that they were out-of-round and would never be right. When I priced repairs on each, the price came to $175 per drum (long time ago, yes). When I asked the price of a new drum (wooden shell) it was $205, thus a no-brainer. After the budget (with new drums) had already been approved, this idiot came by to tell me he had taken the new drums out of the budget, as he had called a guy in Dallas and asked "how much to fix a drum" without giving any details. The repairman said "I can make them like new for $50 each". So I asked the sup if he got that in writing; he said "why"? I told him what all was needed to be replaced, so he had me call his guy. His quote came to the same $175. I said, "Bill, what does it cost to fix a car?". He finally got the point, and I got my drums. He really wanted to kill that large band program, but after 30 years of excellence, he knew he couldn't.

dumb question:

Were they talked into playing the clarinet...

...it seems to me that a bunch of clarinet players are just as badly needed (if not more so) than a bunch of new tuba people.

...or maybe (??) it's just the snotty "orchestral musician" mentality that I've assumed - knowing full well that "finding 16 or 18 really hot-shot fiddle players" is considerably more important - to most any orchestra - than "finding one adequate tuba player".

Jperry1466 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:53 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:15 am Was this dolt a coach prior to entering administration?

Surprisingly, no, he wasn't a coach. I don't know what or if he ever taught, but he was, in fact, the best assistant principal (discipline, etc.) I ever saw. He became the principal, then supt., and wanted to make a name as a "problem solver" and had a habit of creating a problem so he could look like he fixed it. The board just kept promoting him until they found a job he couldn't do (Peter Principle).

As to the drum story, I had a set of old Ludwig stainless steel marching drums with no wood shells that were badly beaten up over years, so much so that they were out-of-round and would never be right. When I priced repairs on each, the price came to $175 per drum (long time ago, yes). When I asked the price of a new drum (wooden shell) it was $205, thus a no-brainer. After the budget (with new drums) had already been approved, this idiot came by to tell me he had taken the new drums out of the budget, as he had called a guy in Dallas and asked "how much to fix a drum" without giving any details. The repairman said "I can make them like new for $50 each". So I asked the sup if he got that in writing; he said "why"? I told him what all was needed to be replaced, so he had me call his guy. His quote came to the same $175. I said, "Bill, what does it cost to fix a car?". He finally got the point, and I got my drums. He really wanted to kill that large band program, but after 30 years of excellence, he knew he couldn't.

These are the POS administrators that need to be taken out behind the barn. Then excommunicated from education.

Sadly, Doc, I'm afraid education is no longer about kids and the future. It's about money and politics.

Jperry1466 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:40 pm Sadly, Doc, I'm afraid education is no longer about kids and the future. It's about money and politics.

I spent nearly 20 years in area schools, and understand this all too well. It’s less obvious in many smaller rural schools, but it still exists. And in some small schools, it screams money/politics. We can take them out behind the barn en masse.