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Yes, this is being rehashed again sorry. I just can't let it go because I think it's so ridiculous and don't feel like useless back and forths on social media. According to someone whom I won't mention his name that runs the Helicon 6/4 Kaiser Bass tuba group on FB says your 3/4 sized Cerveny Piggies are actually 5/4 or 6/4, St. Petersburg tubas are at least 5/4 maybe 6/4, and....wait for it.....your 6/4 American BATS are actually 4/4 size because bore size "mostly" determines unofficial tuba size measuring system we all use. Not flame post or calling anyone out specifically, just picking apart the premise of this being obscenely inaccurate according to community standards we more or less live by when it comes to tuba sizes (varying slightly depending on who you ask). Oh my God, I'm starting to post rant like Bloke now...forgive me

It's all a bunch of nonsense.

I think it might be fun to do a DMA dissertation on tuba sizing -- the history, the nonsense (okay, "inaccuracies"), and then propose another sizing methodology... which as we've all come to agree upon, is the volume of beer, in Liters, that the tuba can hold.

Ok fine, water works too... but who are we kidding?

Could be worse, may have been an Elephant-like rant!!

Yes! It is wrong, wrong, wrong to size tubas! Leads only to sorrow.

Perhaps, as in Bb instruments we need different terminologies for different bore profiles…

So, as we have the Trumpet, Cornet and Flugelhorn we could have the Tubet, Tubnet and Tubahorn.

Or not…

You say tomato, I say tomahto,
You say potato, I say potahto,
You say 3/4, I say 6/4,
4/4, 5/4,
3/4, 6/4,
Let's call the whole thing off.

Doc wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:43 am You say tomato, I say tomahto,
You say potato, I say potahto,
You say 3/4, I say 6/4,
4/4, 5/4,
3/4, 6/4,
Let's call the whole thing off.

I agree, but there will be a WHOLE lotta lap sousaphone players triggered by someone calling them 4/4 players lol

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I agree, but there will be a WHOLE lotta lap sousaphone players triggered by someone calling them 4/4 players lol

Some of them tend to be triggered about a lot of things.

He's wrong in comparing bore size to volumetric measurements, there's no correlation. I believe most people would categorize physical volume (how much water could it hold or displace) as a better indicator of instrument "size" than the width of a single piece of pipe entering the valve casings (which tends to run bigger on rotary valves than piston valves in my observation). This isn't difficult.

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:06 pm He's wrong in comparing bore size to volumetric measurements, there's no correlation. I believe most people would categorize physical volume (how much water could it hold or displace) as a better indicator of instrument "size" than the width of a single piece of pipe entering the valve casings (which tends to run bigger on rotary valves than piston valves in my observation). This isn't difficult.

Yep.

I don't think I'd want to support an 80-100 piece orchestra on my 5/4 (or 6/4) Cerveny Piggy, nor would I think a 4/4 Nirschl BAT York copy would be best-suited for quintet.

I guess I could sell all my horns and get Mike Lynch's giant Rudy BBb from Baltimore Brass and use it for everything. It defies all definitions (and logic), so it might not matter. It is quite a different experience, to be sure.

What's weird is that there's only one bass trombone in the average lineup, am I right? And yet the internal volume on those things is pretty skimpy. It's almost like for some instruments, sound isn't proportional to physical volume.

It is wrong for us to label and categorize them.

We should be asking them how they identify.

You cruel bastards!!

Or how many angels can dance on the rim of a 20 inch bell.

As random as they are, it’s really silly to try to superimpose the violin sizing system on tubas.

Instead, this system should be put into place:
- crap
- inferior
- bad
- mediocre
- fair
- alright
- pretty good
- darn good
- really good
- great
- excellent
- superb
- miraculous
- bloke’s tubas

donn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:35 pm What's weird is that there's only one bass trombone in the average lineup, am I right? And yet the internal volume on those things is pretty skimpy. It's almost like for some instruments, sound isn't proportional to physical volume.

Skimpy compared to tubas. But overall, they sure are getting larger.

All tubas are full size.

Maybe he’s referring to tube sizing?
;-P

...

Three Valves wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:49 pm It is wrong for us to label and categorize them.
We should be asking them how they identify.
You cruel bastards!!

just say BAT lives matter!

It's a shame really, all the fussin' and fightin'.

Sure, these are vague sizings. I use them to "more or less" indicate a very general playing characteristic which is often reflected by the amount of brass used in the tuba.

6/4, big tuba
4/4, small tuba
One sounds big and broad. The other not so.

So if I was looking to purchase a 5/4 piston tuba with manageable intonation and someone else said "what about an Alex 163? Or a Conn 14K?"
I'd say "thanks" but my brain would say "no thanks".
Why? Because A 163 is a rotary tuba and a 14K is a sousaphone.

But also because in my hands both play 4/4ish to me.

Very vague. Very general.

Just like violet and purple are two different colours.