TubaForum.net

For myself I've found:

Rudy 3/4
Miraphone Bruckner\1292\186
Newer King 2341

All these I consider to be really consistent and safe buys... Or at least I haven't played any that were reaaaallly out of tune or dogs.

Thoughts?

> *many things for re-sale.
> virtually nothing for my own use (particularly if I had to pay market pricing to obtain it).
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* @Matt Walters points out that every tuba has someone's name on it...whether that name is a current name or a future name.

bloke "Having participated in these discussion boards for two decades, I've learned that 'intonation characteristics' is not at the top of all that many players' lists."

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:26 am bloke "Having participated in these discussion boards for two decades, I've learned that 'intonation characteristics' is not at the top of all that many players' lists."

I'm always surprised by this. I view intonation in a horn like reliability in a car. How much can you like a car if it's a constant struggle to keep it running?

Maybe players whose lips buzz together while they playing, have an easier time with intonation.

I JUST did this. Ordered a King 2341 based on reputation and a great couldn’t turn it down price. Hopefully it will work out for me. A big contrast to 30+ years ago, when I went to Tuba Exchange and Vince had 4 Amati branded Cerveny 686’s in stock, and I was so picky I insisted on test playing all 4 of them to make sure I was getting the pick of the litter! Believe it or not there were differences, even though they were the same model from the same batch.

donn wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:00 am Maybe players whose lips buzz together while they playing, have an easier time with intonation.

ZING!!

Not much.

But I would buy a known quantity item, like a 36K, provided the condition when it arrived was "as described" from a reputable source.

I would buy from JP Instruments, Mack Brass or Wessex having played their designs I would not need to play the actual one I receive. Sometimes you can't. I've played them at Conferences or at Baltimore Brass so I have familiarity with the models I had interest in.

Gronitz double tuba

I used to answer this question with a few makes and models, but, I've changed direction here. While there are a few makes and models I would most likely buy without play testing (price being a factor), I would absolutely buy almost any instrument that was recommended to me by certain people I know and trust. Without naming names, there are some people who have enough credibility with me that I would pull the trigger without blinking. Horns owned by certain people have interest as well, but less so because some players are good enough to make the proper length of garden hose with a funnel sound good.

I bought a horn this past spring without play testing based solely on brand and model rep and I think I hit the jackpot on it. I don't know if I hit the Progressive Jackpot, but it worked out really well. Had it not worked out I was only into the instrument for an amount I could recoup fairly easily and that was a driving factor in taking the leap.

"Closed lips" always define PERFECT intonation, because there can be no sound.

bloke "and often, it's probably better that way"

I've only ever bought used tubas, so I'm 100% with @kingrob76 on this.

I've owned 12(?) tubas before, and I think I've only play-tested the first one before I bought it. The others 1) I've bought from people I trust, and know they aren't selling me a garbage tuba or 2) paid a price that I know I can recover, even if the tuba doesn't work out for me at all.

So the answer is that I'd buy pretty much any model of tuba without playtesting, but I would want to know that someone else has played it and can speak intelligently about it.

Now... if it's a brand new tuba, that sort of changes things... but not really. Tubas are sold by people, and even when you buy something brand new, it almost always is shipped from the dealer/store, and it has at least a few notes played on it previously. When you buy a new car, it's got a couple of miles on the odometer. You don't get something from the dealership with 0.0 miles on it.

But playing along with the spirit of the question, I would blindly trust (more blindly than other options):
Miraphone 188
Miraphone 186
B&S PT-just-about-anything-besides-Apollo-F-tuba

Not because I think all of those are perfect -- they aren't. But because they are all solid and consistent, and that if I were to get one, I'd know what I'm signing up for before I receive it. And if there are big problems with it, it's likely a repair issue instead of a design issue. I'm sure there are more, but that's what comes to mind straightaway.

I bought, played, and enjoyed owning/playing a Rudy 5-valve-plus-trigger 5/4 C for several years.

I met the seller at a gas station south of Louisville, sat on the edge of one of those round concrete pillars (that supports those 25-feet-tall parking lot light poles) play-tested about 15 seconds worth of stuff on it, and bought it.

bloke "In my earlier post, I didn't claim that I 'extensively' play-test instruments that I buy for my own use...only that I DO play-test them."

If I was in the market for a yamaha, I would buy one without a test play as long it was in very good condition. Those things are famously consistent

@bloke -- to me, a play test is only enough needed to decide if you're going to take it home. The next days/weeks/months are where you decide your longer-term plans.

Going TO the play-test requires a level of trust in the person selling you the tuba, to ensure that it's worth the effort to get that far.

As the man said, "trust, but verify"

That said... My next installment of "buying without trying" will be enroute to Minneapolis soon enough.

hrender wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:37 am

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:26 am bloke "Having participated in these discussion boards for two decades, I've learned that 'intonation characteristics' is not at the top of all that many players' lists."

I'm always surprised by this. I view intonation in a horn like reliability in a car. How much can you like a car if it's a constant struggle to keep it running?

Dunno. I hear people talk about old Alexanders and their wonderful sound and their propensity to drive intonation into a ditch.

The Big Ben wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:59 pm

hrender wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:37 am

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:26 am bloke "Having participated in these discussion boards for two decades, I've learned that 'intonation characteristics' is not at the top of all that many players' lists."

I'm always surprised by this. I view intonation in a horn like reliability in a car. How much can you like a car if it's a constant struggle to keep it running?

Dunno. I hear people talk about old Alexanders and their wonderful sound and their propensity to drive intonation into a ditch.

YET those tubas find buyers, and YET everyone who owns one claims that theirs is an "exception".
I'm SURE I've forgone MANY sales, because I TEND to only buy stuff for resale that I view as "usable on a gig".

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:26 am > *many things for re-sale.
> virtually nothing for my own use (particularly if I had to pay market pricing to obtain it).
-------------------------------------------
* @Matt Walters points out that every tuba has someone's name on it...whether that name is a current name or a future name.

bloke "Having participated in these discussion boards for two decades, I've learned that 'intonation characteristics' is not at the top of all that many players' lists."

About 12 years ago the only thing that had concerned me was how a tuba looked (I really like the short tubby york like tubas and the 188's) and how "open" it was to play.

Now that I am a little more experienced I don't much care about cosmetic looks. Intonation is priority.

The funniest thing is the whole "open" feeling tuba desire has pretty much died. I rarely come across ridiculously stuffy tubas and I think its because my air is more efficient and slower than when I was younger.

yeah...
There are some squatty Russian tubas that play "open", but (though not terrible, and I would buy one cheap to smooth out and flip - since band directors seem to like buying them) I'm way-less-than-interested in owning one of them.

Some might observe that they can easily play low range pitches on an "open" tuba, but can they play LONG, LOUD, and PRETTY-SOUNDING low range pitches easily with a "wide-open" tuba...?? ...or easily control the "pitch-creep" tendencies when executing crescendi and diminuenti...??

The overly-"open" tubas, often, aren't those with really large bore valvesets. Rather, they are some of those with really large capillary bore tapers in their mouthpipe tubes.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:29 pm yeah...
There are some squatty Russian tubas that play "open", but (though not terrible, and I would buy one cheap to smooth out and flip - since band directors seem to like buying them) I'm way-less-than-interested in owning one of them.

Some might observe that they can easily play low range pitches on an "open" tuba, but can they play LONG, LOUD, and PRETTY-SOUNDING low range pitches easily with a "wide-open" tuba...?? ...or easily control the "pitch-creep" tendencies when executing crescendi and diminuenti...??

The overly-"open" tubas, often, aren't those with really large bore valvesets. Rather, they are some of those with really large capillary bore tapers in their mouthpipe tubes.

I have a much older tuba friend who always comments on how the newer generation of tuba players are blatting or playing the lower register too bright. He would make these comments not just about college kids but also a few of the new hotter names today.

I thought he was just being an old curmudgeon until I went to the army tuba conference and listened to a player lay down what simply sounded like a warm organ. I never forgot that sound because it didn't stand out but it was present similarly how the low notes of an organ are.

If controlled and tempered, even that has its place (but not often).
ex: low D-sharp in "Uranus" (but even THAT should have some breadth and broadness incorporated into it)

The recording engineer for the IRIS Orchestra (a low brass player) told me that he likes listening to me in his headphones, because (obviously, unless very rarely called for) I don't do that sh!t "..as do many of the tuba players do in other orchestras I record". ...' goes with out saying: I took that as a huge compliment.