TubaForum.net

Hi all,

Today I have an Miraphone Hagen 6/4 Bb and I start to feel it is a lil to big for me. Any suggestion on an equal good Bb, but in 5/4 size?
(I play Tuba 2 parts in Concert Bands)

Erik_Sweden wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:39 am Hi all,

Today I have an Miraphone Hagen 6/4 Bb and I start to feel it is a lil to big for me. Any suggestion on an equal good Bb, but in 5/4 size?
(I play Tuba 2 parts in Concert Bands)

The Hagen 6/4 is more popular than the Modell 98 6/4 - I suspect - due primarily to "optics" (the Hagen's more symmetrical/handsome appearance/shape).

The Modell 98 offers nearly-effortless playing and nearly-effortless tuning, with a "wide" sound, yet with good "front" (definition) to the sound.

I might wonder if anyone - in continental Europe - might possibly (??) own a 98, and (again: the "optics" thing, primarily) wish that they owned a Hagen (??)

If your issue is mostly the "work" (once seated in the ensemble) and not really the "size" (getting the large piece of equipment to the venue), I'm just wondering if someone might trade - outright - with you...

What about the Hagen 496 instead?

Maybe trade your 497 with @Doc for his 496?

Jupiter JTU1110. (a newer one since Patrick Sheridan started contributing his 2 cents' worth). Yes, most folks would call the a "4/4" tuba, but the bell throat is more like a Thor, and I would call it a "4/4+" if not a "5/4" tuba. I use one as the only tuba player supporting a sizeable community concert band, and it is well received. Piston valves. You can get the specs off the web site. Big tone with color and core, superlative intonation.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:49 am If your issue is mostly the "work" (once seated in the ensemble) and not really the "size" (getting the large piece of equipment to the venue), I'm just wondering if someone might trade - outright - with you...

It's the work, not the actual size.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:51 am What about the Hagen 496 instead?

Yes, a 5/4 Hagen is an obvious candidate.
Another one I looking at is a MW Fafner (rotor or piston). Any one tested both versions of the Fafner?

Erik_Sweden wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:05 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:49 am If your issue is mostly the "work" (once seated in the ensemble) and not really the "size" (getting the large piece of equipment to the venue), I'm just wondering if someone might trade - outright - with you...

It's the work, not the actual size.

Work as in, not efficient and takes a lot of effort to blow? The 497 is the best sounding big rotary tuba ever IMO..but Bort is right, send it to Doc if you don't like it...he needs a bigger horn.

I love my 496. If Erik really wanted to trade his 497 for my 496 5v with Miraphone bag, I'd first ask that he allow me time to make a trip to Fort Worth to compare my 496 with the 497 to definitely make sure that's what I would want do.

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:43 pm I love my 496. If Erik really wanted to trade his 497 for my 496 5v with Miraphone bag, I'd first ask that he allow me time to make a trip to Fort Worth to compare my 496 with the 497 to definitely make sure that's what I would want do.

No. USA is to far away, and I have never played a 496, so I don't know if I will have one.

Erik_Sweden wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:36 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:43 pm I love my 496. If Erik really wanted to trade his 497 for my 496 5v with Miraphone bag, I'd first ask that he allow me time to make a trip to Fort Worth to compare my 496 with the 497 to definitely make sure that's what I would want do.

No. USA is to far away, and I have never played a 496, so I don't know if I will have one.

He might include a plate of World Famous Texas Brisket included in a trade, that alone would be worth a trip from Sweden!

Contact Lee Stofer. He has a gorgeous, pristine Miraphone 191 5 valve. You'd be familiar with everything about this horn, but it's more compact, and gold brass to boot!
Tim

What about the B&S GR51 or GR55? Both are excellent instruments with the right tone and volume for the lowest voice in a concert band but quiet compact and air efficient compared to all rather Kaiser sized tubas mentioned above. Both share similar characteristics while being different in size and material.

Availibility is also not an issue here in Europe.

Thomas

I've played the GR51, 55, Hagens 496, 497 side by side.

The 497 plays larger than the 496 and the GR51 played rather compressed for my tastes. The GR55 didn't play well at all.

One of coarse has to take into consideration that maybe not all of these tubas were top tubas; they were just what was available at a music store. I didn't have the opportunity to try two GR55, for example.

Good luck

How does the Rudy 5/4.BBb fit in with the Miraphone a, size-wise?

I have a Hagen 496. When I bought it, I had a gorgeous restored Holton 345, and was looking for a smaller tuba to supplement the Holton.

What I figured out was the Hagen could be played as big or as small as I want it.

I found the GR55 needed more finessing than the Hagen, so I went for the Hagen instead. I also tried the Hagen 495, and it was, in my opinion, a stinker.

Don

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:19 pm How does the Rudy 5/4.BBb fit in with the Miraphone a, size-wise?

The Rudy “5/4” is a really big tuba. I think it’s as big, if not bigger than most 6/4 tubas. The only thing bigger is the Rudy "6/4". Which is probably more like 7 or 8/4.

djwpe wrote:

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:19 pm How does the Rudy 5/4.BBb fit in with the Miraphone a, size-wise?

The Rudy “5/4” is a really big tuba. I think it’s as big, if not bigger than most 6/4 tubas. The only thing bigger is the Rudy "6/4". Which is probably more like 7 or 8/4.

The Rudi 5/4 isn’t bigger that a 6/4 BAT, but it’s a kaisertuba that will be an alternative to a Yorkish BAT in tone and propagation—not really an alternative in “size”.


Here’s a Rudi 5/4 C and a Holton BB-345.

I’ve seen “5/4” applied to tubas that really are common full-size instruments—4/4.

My (nominally) 5/4 Hirsbrunner HBS-193 is also a kaisertuba and not really smaller than a Rudi. It competes with my Holton not in size but applicability to different spaces.

Rick “each tuba speaks for itself” Denney

Define bigger? If you mean by "fatter", then the Holton wins. But the Rudy is much taller.

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:45 pm

djwpe wrote:

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:19 pm How does the Rudy 5/4.BBb fit in with the Miraphone a, size-wise?

The Rudy “5/4” is a really big tuba. I think it’s as big, if not bigger than most 6/4 tubas. The only thing bigger is the Rudy "6/4". Which is probably more like 7 or 8/4.

The Rudi 5/4 isn’t bigger that a 6/4 BAT, but it’s a kaisertuba that will be an alternative to a Yorkish BAT in tone and propagation—not really an alternative in “size”.


Here’s a Rudi 5/4 C and a Holton BB-345.

I’ve seen “5/4” applied to tubas that really are common full-size instruments—4/4.

My (nominally) 5/4 Hirsbrunner HBS-193 is also a kaisertuba and not really smaller than a Rudi. It competes with my Holton not in size but applicability to different spaces.

Rick “each tuba speaks for itself” Denney

Gala Apples (CC) to Ambrosia Apples (BBb). Here's my Rudy-Meinl Bayreuth vs. the St. Pete 202n it replaced 18 years ago:

I'll work on a more apt comparison image of my Bayreuth with my Miraphone 191.

KingTuba1241X wrote:Define bigger? If you mean by "fatter", then the Holton wins. But the Rudy is much taller.

A Miraphone 184 is taller than a Holton. My Hirsbrunner is taller than this Rudi. So what?

I think fatness (volume) is the size factor. But the tall bell really does matter in terms of the propagated sound field. Kaisertubas have height and width—just not quite as much width in the last four feet, perhaps. But still more than and “normal” tuba. But when it comes to wide dispersion, the BAT rules the waves. The 497 is more BAT than Kaiser, at least that’s what I recall from playing one in that lost, misty past when tuba workshops and exhibits existed. The Fafner leaned the other way.

Rick “not just length but girth” Denney