Tuba Shank Sizes

[cjk]

I figured this should be here. It's good information to have sometimes. Credit Matt Walters from 2005.

TUBA SHANK SIZES

In the world of tuba mouthpieces, it seems there are five (5) general shank sizes and that, can lead to confusion. The Standard American and European Shank sizes, followed by the Large Shank, are the most common sizes that fit modern production tubas. From smallest to largest, we offer the following information to shed a little light on the subject.

SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas. I hear this referred to as the Eb tuba size. Some old German, etc. 3/4 size BBb tubas have also shown up with that receiver size. If you are having trouble figuring out what small size shank your old tuba needs, it is about the same size as a large shank trombone mouthpiece. Borrow one from a trombonist and see for yourself. You can order a Denis Wick mouthpiece, or to have a wider variety of mouthpieces to choose from, consider replacing the receiver for about the price of a mouthpiece.

STANDARD AMERICAN: The reference point for this size of about .520" at the small end of the shank. A good example would be the Bach, and Conn Helleberg tuba mouthpieces. This is the most common size here in the United States. In the Dennis Wick line, you need to make sure it has the "L" in the model number to get this standard size. Our regular size shank Dillon Mouthpieces are also of this size. Besides American built horns, many European horns like Miraphone can use this size.

EUROPEAN SHANK: This is an increasingly popular shank size of about .530" diameter at the small end of the shank. It is found in mouthpieces like the JK Exclusive, Perantucci, Laskey "E" shank, and of course our wonderful Sheridan Series of mouthpieces. Most every European and American tuba built these days, will accept this shank size.

LARGE SHANK: This is a larger size that measures about .550" diameter at the small end of the shank. It works well on the larger European tubas. Especially horns with large diameter leadpipes like the "York" copies and most Alexander model 163 CC tubas. This is the size of our Dillon Music "L" shank mouthpiece and the new Wick 2XL.

KAISER SHANK: With a measurement of about .585" in diameter at the small end of the shank, this truly is a "Kaiser" size. It fits the largest Alexander model 164, a few one off model 163's, and some original York receivers we've come across. Anyone needing this size shank will need to get a custom built mouthpiece, or have an adapter made.

I hope this explanation will be of help to you.
Matt Walters
Last chair tubist
Who Cares What Ensemble
Owns old tubas that play better than what you have.

[bloke]

More than one or two "shoot the middle" - between standard and euro.

"Small" (aka bass trombone / aka "old British) inserts about 1/4" farther in than "standard" which inserts about 1/4" in farther than "euro"
(...that's assuming a theoretical/imaginary receiver, in which there is no "bottoming out")

The "shoot the middle" size - that I've observed (and even offered as an option) is in-between euro and standard. I use that in-between size on both my large 5/4 C "depth-charger" and my squatty hybrid Holton B-flat, as both of those receivers seem to be "shoot-the-middle" receivers, as well.

I'm thinking that the larger-than-euro-shank mouthpieces mostly are/were made to accommodate older instruments.

Jarno taper and reamer.png (64 KiB) Viewed 994 times

[cjk]

Mike Finn's mouthpieces were .525", half way between typical American and Euro. Pretty brilliant if you ask me.

I recall old Mirafone mouthpieces being just larger than American. My Mirafone Rose Solo is .523".

[donn]

When I measure shank ends of old Schilke and Conn mouthpieces, I typically see .530".

[Dopey]

This is an old gem that is often referenced.

Really dumb question.

What is the effect from using the wrong mouthpiece size compared to shank size?

If the MP shank is too large it won't go in 'as far'. But does that mean you'll be flat? Make it impossible to tune partials?

[bloke]

The (likely, no more than 1/4 inch) insertion of a “euro” shank mouthpiece into a “standard” shank receiver can be overcome - overall length-wise - by pushing in a main slide only 1/8 of an inch.
More significant, exposing more or less of the small end of the inside of a mouthpiece receiver – which is tapered in the opposite direction of the bore of the instrument – may have a perceived effect on the way an instrument feels or responds.
————————-
On the same topic, but not really having anything to do with your question…thus the dividing line…
I’ve seen quite a few modern era receivers that I would label “fake euro“ - whereby the small ends of those receivers are actually set up to be “standard“ size, but the large ends of those receivers are extended out farther, in order to cover up more of a “euro” mouthpiece’s shank.
I believe (ok: guess) this has been done to accommodate the popularity/fad of buying “euro“ shank mouthpieces, but still allows for “standard“ shank mouthpieces (the overwhelming majority of all mouthpieces manufactured) to be inserted into those instruments without bottoming out.
————————
…yet another dividing line
me personally: I seem to select mouthpiece shank exterior sizes which place the ends of those mouthpieces only about 1/8 inch away from the “choke point” - where a receiver meets the beginning of a mouthpipe tube. Some people - with much more cachet than myself - state that they prefer for their mouthpieces to expose more of a receiver interior’s reverse taper.

This is an old gem that is often referenced.

Really dumb question.

What is the effect from using the wrong mouthpiece size compared to shank size?

If the MP shank is too large it won't go in 'as far'. But does that mean you'll be flat? Make it impossible to tune partials?

[Cameron]

Thanks for posting this information. When measuring the shank size, do I measure the inside or outside diameter of the shank?

[cjk]

Thanks for posting this information. When measuring the shank size, do I measure the inside or outside diameter of the shank?

Outside.

[JRaymo]

The (likely, no more than 1/4 inch) insertion of a “euro” shank mouthpiece into a “standard” shank receiver can be overcome - overall length-wise - by pushing in a main slide only 1/8 of an inch.
More significant, exposing more or less of the small end of the inside of a mouthpiece receiver – which is tapered in the opposite direction of the bore of the instrument – may have a perceived effect on the way an instrument feels or responds.
————————-
On the same topic, but not really having anything to do with your question…thus the dividing line…
I’ve seen quite a few modern era receivers that I would label “fake euro“ - whereby the small ends of those receivers are actually set up to be “standard“ size, but the large ends of those receivers are extended out farther, in order to cover up more of a “euro” mouthpiece’s shank.
I believe (ok: guess) this has been done to accommodate the popularity/fad of buying “euro“ shank mouthpieces, but still allows for “standard“ shank mouthpieces (the overwhelming majority of all mouthpieces manufactured) to be inserted into those instruments without bottoming out.
————————
…yet another dividing line
me personally: I seem to select mouthpiece shank exterior sizes which place the ends of those mouthpieces only about 1/8 inch away from the “choke point” - where a receiver meets the beginning of a mouthpipe tube. Some people - with much more cachet than myself - state that they prefer for their mouthpieces to expose more of a receiver interior’s reverse taper.

This is an old gem that is often referenced.

Really dumb question.

What is the effect from using the wrong mouthpiece size compared to shank size?

If the MP shank is too large it won't go in 'as far'. But does that mean you'll be flat? Make it impossible to tune partials?

I think I now own every size shank you offer for you imperial MP. This is just affirmation of your suggestion. My Willson tuba takes a euro shank but it he in between sized shank with that mouthpiece to me plays much better than the euro shank and the difference is quite noticeable. Thank you Joe for that recommendation.


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