Jakob Winter Case Experience?

[Stryk]

I just ordered a Jakob Winter case. Anyone have any real life experience with them? Pros and Cons?

[the elephant]

They are worth the $$$$ for sure. Very nice.

[bloke]

I have two of them, but - due to the pricing - I managed to pick BOTH of them up USED.

One is quite old and tiny (originally sold with one of those TINY Besson B-flat student ("Regent", or whatev') tubas. That one isn't as "slick" as the later-vintage ones, but still very good indeed.

The other came with a big 3+1 comp. 1980's UK-made Sovereign B-flat that I bought (which I REALLY NEED to smooth out nicely and SELL...sometime...). That one is later-vintage, brown, and a bit "slicker" than the older small/black one.

Both of them have "Besson" incorporated into the mold, on the top side. (They put "Miraphone" in the Miraphone ones, yes?)

I believe that - since either of those were made - they're even fancier yet (and wildly more expensive), yes?

JP (early on) had been putting their NICER (3-series) 3+1 comp. E-flat into them, but (well...cost...) they have moved those instruments over to a fiberglass frame very high-grade nylon covered "JpPro" case - that very closely resembles the style/quality of Marcus Bonna cases.

I view the Winter cases as being a cut above the MTS/SKB stuff, but I don't see Winter billing them as "flight" cases...but (well...) I don't consider ANY hard case to be good enough to protect a tuba when within the belly of an airliner...much less survive the trip itself.

[gwwilk]

My Rudy-Meinl Bayreuth came with an appropriately sized (BIG) Jakob Winter case. It's fairly lightweight considering its size and does a fine job of protecting my tuba.

HOWEVER, don't plan on lugging this thing several blocks, as I've had to do on a few occasions. You can't balance the load a la a hand truck like you can with an MTS case! Nor can you push it, you have to pull it. And when doing so you're also carrying part (half?) of the load while you amble along.

On the plus side, the large rubberized wheels are great except when the hex screws that hold them on loosen and even fall out. Luckily I could find replacements for them at my local hardware store.

[bloke]

Are you reporting that the sort of “sleek” design (which includes contoured sides) defines that it is difficult to keep it up on the parallel rails of a hand-truck (as opposed to MTS cases, which feature mostly flat sides)?
———————-
related opinion, but not informational to this topic.
I don’t know who here plays in community bands and who does whatever else, but – based on some of the things that I’ve read over the years - I believe some communities and their events should do a better job of accommodating “big instrument“ (not just large percussion instruments) people, when community bands play up in the middle areas of outdoor events (fairs/festivals) - events that tend to be several city blocks in size. The problem could be addressed simply with those people who drive golf carts around at those events helping out. Rex Conner solved this problem - at Interlochen - by carrying his no-case instrument up on his shoulder around the campus, but I don’t believe that everyone should be forced to make this decision.
(I have personally moved a couple - OK: three - of my personally-owned instruments over to hard cases, but this would have been unpleasant without the courteous stage door parking or golf cart service that I’m often provided.)

[Stryk]

I view the Winter cases as being a cut above the MTS/SKB stuff, but I don't see Winter billing them as "flight" cases...but (well...) I don't consider ANY hard case to be good enough to protect a tuba when within the belly of an airliner...much less survive the trip itself.

I wouldn't think anything short of a Unitec should be considered a flight case. I just wanted something better and easier than a gig bag to schlep around town. I would never fly with a tuba if I fly at all. I know some people think they have to, but it seems there are better solutions than putting a tuba in the luggage compartment.

[bloke]

still off-topic, but responding to a comment by the person who originated the thread, so...

I loaned one of my WJ cases to a friend (who was - padding up his resume for tenure - flying all over the place world doing MC's, etc.). It protected their instrument, but I had to take it to a body shop to have the case itself repaired from being thrown around - as if a gunny sack of cracked corn.

[gwwilk]

Are you reporting that the sort of “sleek” design (which includes contoured sides) defines that it is difficult to keep it up on the parallel rails of a hand-truck (as opposed to MTS cases, which feature mostly flat sides)?
...

Like this one:

Or this much smaller one to show the rear handle:


Notice the bottom bow handle location and configuration. There's no way to use this case like a hand truck.

[bloke]

yeah...
I'm not sure if you mean "AS" a hand-truck or "WITH" a hand-truck.

If you mean "WITH" a hand-truck (??),
(again) the rounded sides of that design make it very difficult to keep it up ON a hand-truck.

If you mean "AS" a hand-truck (??),
ALL of the modern-era molded cases with wheels feature wheels that are built into the cases (ie. too close together to PULL them, without them tipping over). However, they can be PUSHED with (some ) success...but I don't care for pushing cases ahead of me.

The only successfully PULL-able cases (in my experience) were the funky wood/Tolex-covered cases with the "wide-track" DEG-kit wheels installed.

I used to ride the Amtrak from Memphis to Chicago - to study when Gene (during rehearsal breaks at Ravinia)...out in the parking area - with a citronella candle lit, setting on the fold-down back door of his vehicle (both of us in lawn chairs. If you think THAT'S funny, you should have seen me on the sidewalks of DOWNTOWN Chicago (particularly with all that wind) pulling TWO *Walt Johnson cases down the sidewalks - from the Amtrak station to the L station...and then, struggling to get them ON to the L train (past the cars' narrow handrails).
____________________________
*The 6/4 case's wheels were far apart so as the case would not tip, when pulled, and the 4/4 case (being tough/thick fiberglass, and not plastic)...I re-engineered those wheels to mimic those DEG "wide-track" wood-case wheels.

[gwwilk]

Summers in college (1962-1964) I worked in a flour mill loading boxcars with a hand truck:


You don't pull these beasts when loaded with 1/2 ton of flour! Heaven forbid it you run it off the dock (which I did while learning how to maneuver it!)

[bloke]

I’ve seen more than one hand truck (aka “dolly” or “two-wheeler”) for sale that has curved cross supports - that might fit against a Winter case better.

Most every job - that’s heavy, and in warehouses - involves something pushed/pulled with small wheels. My job was to push a cart of dozens and dozens of bundles (of 5) 20-foot-long pieces of chain-link fence top rail to load underneath (outdoors) SEARS 18-wheeler trailers (in compartments underneath) designed to hold them.
What was crazy was that someone would load up this two-sided long heavy cart full of them up on a high concrete platform outdoors, and then I’d have to get that cart down a concrete ramp - as it rolled faster and faster - and then make it turn a sharp 90° angle - to avoid crashing into a whole bunch of returned “core“ car batteries stacked up straight across from the bottom of the ramp. It was nuts, and - every day - turning that 90° angle - while that thing was going really fast - was (well) . “thrilling”. Tossing those bundles of five pipes into those underneath carriers was something that involved being careful as well, because obviously they could fall on my foot, or the sharp ends of the pipes could (gloves or no) cut a nice “cookie” in my hand…
…but - just like any other job, it involved paying attention and being careful…and it paid $2.85/hour in 1974. (more than minimum)
After I finished that daily specific-to-me job, I went inside and either sorted goofy long things - that had to be specially loaded into the trucks, or help the big muscle men load the huge appliances into the trucks.

… but yeah, there’s more than one hand truck that I’ve seen for sale with curved cross braces - that might accommodate that Winter case shape better - for those who don’t have the patience (I wouldn’t) to fool with those little built-in case wheels.
Here's a Chinese one (HF) that features curved cross braces, and which might possibly accommodate the Winter case shape a bit better...(Capacity is listed at 600 lbs. - so it might even support those loads whereby people pack along a whole bunch of mouthpieces, oils, lights, tools, stands, food, sheet music libraries, recording devices, and other related gear.)

[kingrob76]

Has anyone ever seen a "this case fits X horn" list for JW cases? I actually emailed the company and never got a response but I'm trying to identify one for a 188...

[greenbean]

The old Winter fiberglass trombone case that is now called Eastman was/is excellent.

The tuba cases are less successful, IMO. I have owned several and have one now. I wish they were better. They need more foam/etc inside to be more than minimally protective. The wheels are too close together to walk along without it tipping over (they may have addressed that). The wheels are not robust enough - 50% of the wheels on my current Winter are broken! That's right 50%! I would advise against rolling off curbs. The front handle is all wrong: you can't push it and you have to bear too much weight. The MTS and SKB have figured these things out. Why not Jacob Winter?