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Never seen such 3 + 2 configuration.. : https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 50-74-3813

4 looks to be the normal P4 drop in pitch.

5 is a flat half-step drop, which is like most 6th valves today. There was a long time when 5th valves were not a set interval and you could easily find horns with a flat half step 5th. It wasn't until the late 1980s or early 1990s, the flat whole step became the standard.

Either way, this is not a configuration that they normally offer, so this horn was likely custom ordered. It looks factory to me; I don't think this was done at a shop, but really good work is not "visible" so who knows…

I know of a UK 3+1 player who had a 186 BBb set up with the 4th operated by his left hand. I have never seen that anywhere else. Also, he did not have the 4th valve itself moved or the slide circuit completely rerouted from the accepted way; he just had the lever custom made to his tastes. This tuba seems like it would have been ordered by a guy like him after having won the lottery.

Interesting stuff…

A wonderfully engineered and built instrument with a decidedly limited audience.

Based on all the goofy stuff they’re willing to sell to some of us (to alter instruments), I’m sure this didn’t require much thinking - on their part - for them to put it together.
Even one of their most recent color brochures mentioned - under nearly every model - that they are willing to custom build them according to customers’ wishes.
The main thing is to be sure that they’re going to be paid, obviously.
Back around 1980-something, The old exclusive importer, “Mirafone USA”, ordered a gold brass 188 with a left-hand-operated long fifth valve and a thumb trigger - over on the left side - for the fifth valve slide. It was special ordered for someone who refused it on delivery. Based on the configuration of his other instruments, I tend to suspect Roger Bobo, but do not know. Of course, they paid Miraphone for it, but needed to sell it. They sold it to me for about $1500 less than regular 188’s were costing at that time. Honestly, I should not have bought it, because it was a dog. It became obvious - all too soon - why it had been refused by “Mr. X“. Every other plain-Jane 188 - that I ever played - played better.
…When I first got it (along with dubious playing characteristics) it featured a #2 rotor which wasn’t lapped in properly, and stuck intermittently. It let me down on one pass through that famous Prokofiev passage in “Romeo and Juliet” and the bass trombone player ribbed me, because - at that time - those instruments were “suggested listing” for $10,000, which was significant money in the early/mid 1980’s.
(but I digress)

For some reason, I'm recalling the 3+2 setup as something for players in the Netherlands...? There was a 3+2 Alexander 163 at Horn Doctor that lived on eBay for a good few months a year or two ago.

Just saying, both that 163 and this 190 appear to have been barely used.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:10 am For some reason, I'm recalling the 3+2 setup as something for players in the Netherlands...? There was a 3+2 Alexander 163 at Horn Doctor that lived on eBay for a good few months a year or two ago.

Just saying, both that 163 and this 190 appear to have been barely used.

My 188 has the same exklusiv engraving on the bell. I once asked Miraphone about the exklusiv engraving and Frau Staudinger replied that Miraphone did that engraving on special request from a dutch dealer. So I think Bort is right that this tuba has been intended for the dutch market.


Happy newyear to you all.

I missed that engraving on the photo. Yes, that's definitely for the Netherlands market. All that's missing is nickel plating!

PS -- cool tuba! If it plays well, I'd wonder if someone could send it back to Miraphone for a conversion to a standard valve configuration?

Good price for a 190 CC even with the less typical configuration. Akord supposedly does good work.

So in this setup, would you play C# as 4-5? Otherwise, you can't pull a slide to get the length right to play C# and F# in tune, because your left hand is pressing the 4th valve. Or you've really got to plan out your choreography. Or an I overthinking? Does the long whole step put the pedal register into tune so there is no slide pulling needed? I love my 5th valve in my left hand, but I have to imagine this configuration would make things like Fountains, Ride, and Prokofiev 5 a nightmare.

I would also jump at the chance to play ANY 190, and that one is gorgeous.

Someone could show me otherwise (with me THEN saying: "oh...I see...ok...thanks")
...but it looks to me as though that tuba might a 5-6-1-2-3 (no #4) set-up.
#5 has a left-thumb trigger, so 5-1-3 is "good" for "low F" (and etc.)
Of course, 6-1-3 can easily end up being great C-sharp and F-sharp (possibly, with a #1 pull...but perhaps not...(??)
...and wouldn't 5-1-2 work out just fine for D and G...??
...Making the absurd assumption that I'm correct in what I believe I'm seeing, I think I could learn to play that tuba (without messing it all up with a torch) in a few days.

tubanh84 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:52 pm I would also jump at the chance to play ANY 190, and that one is gorgeous.

Interlochen has a "normal config." (C) one that (my understanding) mostly sits in storage.
So far, the guest who has made the best sound on my 190-BB (totally different, other than the valveset bore) - has been Austin Howle.
He made it sing, liked what he heard, and noticed that (with - unlike the C-version - the only-440mm bell diameter) it puts out a lot of high-quality sound without have to exert very much energy.

bloke "but again: I digress"

a C next to a B-flat
photo credit: Dave Amason
(He and I disagree on which model '90 is more viable.)

Who was it (on the old place) that had a goldbrass 190 CC for sale a few years ago? Ben Pierce? I would have liked to play it.

(He and I disagree on which model '90 is more viable.)

I concur on this for sure.

Who was it (on the old place) that had a goldbrass 190 CC for sale a few years ago? Ben Pierce? I would have liked to play it.

I don't know, but Mr. Epley is in the process of getting that 190 BBb from 74' ready for sale or trade that I pawned off on him for that last custom 1241 I owned. The 190 was in need of lots of dent work and some rot underneath the Kranz but it's going to be good when he's done likely. That was a Craigslist score and subsequent shipping nightmare.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:19 pm

Interlochen has a "normal config." (C) one that (my understanding) mostly sits in storage.

AK-MI.png

Ok that made me crack up. Thank you.

I worked on Ben's - prior to him selling it.
(I forget what i did, but I don't recall it being much.)
The newer .835" bore rotors are the same "blank" as the 186 rotors, but with the scoops MUCH closer together (like B&S F tuba #4 rotors), which makes them LIGHT and FAST.

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:03 pm Who was it (on the old place) that had a goldbrass 190 CC for sale a few years ago? Ben Pierce? I would have liked to play it.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:19 pm ...but it looks to me as though that tuba might a 5-6-1-2-3 (no #4) set-up.

SO, realistically, to make this into a conventional 5-1-2-3-4 set up, one would need to acquire the tubing for a 4th valve, plus any sort of parts to re-work the paddle layout accordingly. Then there's a lot of work routing and re-routing the plumbing accordingly. A good example of a 190 is on my short list, but this one would be too much to deal with for my tastes (and, no idea how it plays).

I’m not a fan of model 90 C tubas, but (again) anyone who’s comfortable with a 4+2 setup should be able to work out a 3+2 setup in a few days, and (simply playing what is there, as everything that is needed is there) avoid tearing the thing apart.
If anything, I would probably just add a fourth valve at the bottom and shorten the #5 circuit at the top, but I don’t like these enough to buy one in the first place.

Adding a fourth at the bottom with the standard issue valve plumbing and keeping the other valves makes sense.

If you’re gonna cut on that tubing, for most “markets”, making fifth the flat whole step would be good. Now with the sixth valve being the same length as fourth, it might be cool to make that a proper length tritone valve to yield some interesting combos in the basement.