Silver plating a Sear Helleberg

[tubazach07]

I have a old nickel silver Sear Helleberg lying around. I am thinking of having it sliver plated. Has anyone had their Sear Helleberg silver plated? The shank on my Sear Helleberg doesn’t seat right in a American shank receiver as it moves around. I know cost wise it’s not very effective as the mouthpieces sold for $6.00 when they were originally made.

[LeMark]

In the days before I started using Sellmansberger mouthpieces, I had a few mouthpieces overhauled and replated at Andersons. It was always cheaper than buying a new one, and they always came back looking amazing

[BuddyRogersMusic]

Yes, I have. I still have that Sear Helleberg on my bench as my test play mouthpiece. I had it plated at Anderson's 22 years ago and it's still in great shape.

[Jperry1466]

After Bueschers.jpg (10.28 KiB) Viewed 1242 times

1926 Buescher mpc.jpg (10.87 KiB) Viewed 1242 times

After Bueschers.jpg (10.28 KiB) Viewed 1242 times

Anderson Plating is great; they replated a mouthpiece that Rex Conner gave me long ago and did a wonderful job. I had an old 1926 Buescher mouthpiece that was sans plating and the shank was missing about .25" on the end as well as having been machined down to fit a Euro leadpipe. I was told to call Vladimir at Dillon Music and was not disappointed. He sleeved the shank back to American and did a beautiful job of plating. I was absolutely amazed at how much work he did for how little money.

[tubazach07]

Thank you everyone for the great replies! I had Dan Oberloh replate a Laskey 30H for me. He did a great job! I also have a friend here in Japan Hirotaka that replated a mouthpiece for me as well. He also did a great job.

It was interesting to see both mouthpieces replated by two different people were different brightness of silver. Dan’s mouthpiece was a darker shade while my friend Hirotaka’s replate and his custom mouthpieces are a brighter shade of silver. My guess is difference the level of nickel in the metal. Either way they were both great!

[bort2.0]

I had a Laskey 30H that needed to be replated... I sold it, thinking that I could easily replace it with a new one when I was ready.

It was a great mouthpiece. As we've talked before Zach, the Momo 30H does sound pretty appealing! It's kn my list of things to try, but unfortunately, my tuba stuff fund was recently depleted. Will have to wait a little longer...

[bloke]

You should have the nickel stripped off of the mouthpiece first.
Vladimir, who is associated with Dillon Music, can perfect your shank exterior for you, as that is one of his specialties.
Me…?? I just don’t know if I would do all that to Sear Helleberg, because that is the stuff that you would have to do just to get it READY to be buffed and silver plated...
... So you’re talking money, money, money, and money…plus postage, postage, postage, postage, postage, and postage.

[tubazach07]

You should have the nickel stripped off of the mouthpiece first.
Vladimir, who is associated with Dillon Music, can perfect your shank exterior for you, as that is one of his specialties.
Me…?? I just don’t know if I would do all that to Sear Helleberg, because that is the stuff that you would have to do just to get it READY to be buffed and silver plated...
... So you’re talking money, money, money, and money…plus postage, postage, postage, postage, postage, and postage.

Joe,

Very good points and good to know. This may be something I think about doing when I return state side someday. For now I will save the money and buy a Hkote rim from you.

[cjk]

My impression of the Parker Helleberg is that it was probably based on a Sear Helleberg. I may be wrong, but it seemed very similar to me.

[bloke]

For a few years, I had one as one of my cars' glove box's "where the heck is my mouthpiece.../!?!?" emergency mouthpieces...

...but I never really liked it at all, realized that some others DO like them, and decided that it would create more happiness in someone's else possession, rather and collecting spider webs in a my 3rd-choice car's glove box.

Considering the odd plating choice (nickel, or maybe rhodium...??), I wonder if Mr. Sear had those made up in Czechoslovakia, as was the source for his tubas...

[Rick Denney]

Considering the odd plating choice (nickel, or maybe rhodium...??), I wonder if Mr. Sear had those made up in Czechoslovakia, as was the source for his tubas...

Not rhodium, which is (usually) more expensive than gold. It’s a very nice metal—corrosion-free and a bright, warm silver color that is harder than electroplated gold. It’s used for plating small jewelry and wristwatch parts, sometimes even as a wear layer on white gold, but almost never in solid constructions.

Rick “about $12000 an ounce at the moment” Denney

[iiipopes]

Considering the odd plating choice (nickel, or maybe rhodium...??), I wonder if Mr. Sear had those made up in Czechoslovakia, as was the source for his tubas...

Not rhodium, which is (usually) more expensive than gold. It’s a very nice metal—corrosion-free and a bright, warm silver color that is harder than electroplated gold. It’s used for plating small jewelry and wristwatch parts, sometimes even as a wear layer on white gold, but almost never in solid constructions.

Rick “about $12000 an ounce at the moment” Denney

Rhodium? That's what the old 2-piece Herco mouthpieces were plated.

[bloke]

Considering the odd plating choice (nickel, or maybe rhodium...??), I wonder if Mr. Sear had those made up in Czechoslovakia, as was the source for his tubas...

Not rhodium, which is (usually) more expensive than gold. It’s a very nice metal—corrosion-free and a bright, warm silver color that is harder than electroplated gold. It’s used for plating small jewelry and wristwatch parts, sometimes even as a wear layer on white gold, but almost never in solid constructions.

Rick “about $12000 an ounce at the moment” Denney

Rhodium? That's what the old 2-piece Herco mouthpieces were plated.

yes...and the Sear plating looks JUST LIKE the Herco plating, so...

[bloke]

Considering the odd plating choice (nickel, or maybe rhodium...??), I wonder if Mr. Sear had those made up in Czechoslovakia, as was the source for his tubas...

Not rhodium, which is (usually) more expensive than gold. It’s a very nice metal—corrosion-free and a bright, warm silver color that is harder than electroplated gold. It’s used for plating small jewelry and wristwatch parts, sometimes even as a wear layer on white gold, but almost never in solid constructions.

Rick “about $12000 an ounce at the moment” Denney

Rhodium? That's what the old 2-piece Herco mouthpieces were plated.

yes...and the Sear plating looks JUST LIKE the Herco plating, so...

Rick,
The Herco mpc's were certainly cheap, and yet - somehow - they managed to afford ("back then") to have them rhodium plated...unless falsely represented in their advertising...and yes, I know it ain't cheap...at least, not lately...

[Rick Denney]

Herco? I’d want to see metallurgical evidence that they plated them in rhodium, at least to a thickness greater than one molecule. Rhodium is in the platinum/palladium group and has never been cheap, though like all precious metals it’s pricing can be a roller coaster. Only rarely has it dipped below gold, and we know the premium gold plating adds to a mouthpiece.

In the 70’s and earlier, only the very highest-end wristwatches used rhodium. Merely nice watches used gold and cheap watches used nickel. Now, most Swiss watches use rhodium-plated movements but I doubt any of them would be considered affordable by Blokian standards.

Rick “but it takes a ‘black’ polish well” Denney

[iiipopes]

Well, everybody else believes that Herco plated all their mouthpieces in Rhodium, given just this little bit of Google:
https://www.google.com/search?q=herco+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

[Rick Denney]

Well, not everyone.





I’d believe there is a trace amount of rhodium in the alloy used for plating. But if there is a substantial premium to be paid for gold plating, it would be at least that high for rhodium plating.

Rick “rhodium is a warmer color than chrome, and Herco mouthpieces don’t have it” Denney

[hrender]

Current price of rhodium seems to be a significant spike. Back in 1972 it was $195/oz -- expensive, but not ridiculous. Notably, rhodium apparently can be plated in extremely thin layers due to its hardness, and there are still several articles up talking about rhodium plating services. Back in the 1950s several common items could be found with rhodium plating (lighters, pens, razors), so its possible Herco deposited a very thin layer of rhodium as a way of upselling their mouthpieces. Google "rhodium plated mouthpieces" and you find several mentions for a variety of instruments.

Side note: Herco's history is a little vague. It seems to originally have been the Hershman Musical Instrument Company in NY and was known for guitar picks and guitars. Now it's owned by Jim Dunlop, which still produces Herco-branded music accessories.

[bloke]

Herco? I’d want to see metallurgical evidence that they plated them in rhodium...

...but none of the rest of us would want you to have it, so you're just going to have to settle down and quit acting out.

[Rick Denney]

Current price of rhodium seems to be a significant spike. Back in 1972 it was $195/oz -- expensive, but not ridiculous. Notably, rhodium apparently can be plated in extremely thin layers due to its hardness, and there are still several articles up talking about rhodium plating services. Back in the 1950s several common items could be found with rhodium plating (lighters, pens, razors), so its possible Herco deposited a very thin layer of rhodium as a way of upselling their mouthpieces. Google "rhodium plated mouthpieces" and you find several mentions for a variety of instruments.

Side note: Herco's history is a little vague. It seems to originally have been the Hershman Musical Instrument Company in NY and was known for guitar picks and guitars. Now it's owned by Jim Dunlop, which still produces Herco-branded music accessories.

Back in 1972, gold was $64 an ounce.

Rhodium has been used as an aesthetic and anti-corrosion coating on watch movement parts well back into the 50’s. Higher-end companies used it as an alternative to nickel, but many of the better companies also used gold because it was cheaper. For something the size of watch movements, the marginal cost is small, but for a production run of 10,000 units it mattered.

Rick “still acting out” Denney