My Issue with Mock Orchestral Auditions

[russiantuba]

It seems like every year there is a regional or international tuba conference (mainly through ITEA), there are mock orchestral auditions. This concept gets great audition experience for competitors who are lucky enough to advance, but I have an issue with the way these are conducted--they are full of tuba players.

A colleague sent me an e-mail that made me think about this again. I have taken just a couple of larger auditions, and at the ones I took, comments were not given. When you are playing for an actual audition, I would find it super rare for a tuba player to be on the committee (unless they were the conductor or music director). Essentially, in the audition process for orchestras, you are playing for other musicians. I look at rosters for these events, and especially at the international ones, I see top orchestral low brass sections, I see other brass musicians in chamber music works with tubists that at least hold a regional orchestral position, etc. If I were a competitor in one of these, I would value the comments of trumpet players, horn players, trombone players, whoever else they stick behind the screen, over a bunch of tuba players (no matter how good they are or how correct their feedback is).

What are your thoughts on this?

[matt g]

It’s a valid point.

Your job on the audition is to convince non-tuba players that you’re a great musician. Tuba players probably have too much bias in listening to other tuba players, good or bad.

[Doc]

Like any other training (military, law enforcement, skilled trades, etc), the training experience should be as real and close to reality as possible. Well-meaning tuba players are providing an otherwise rare experience. I’m not sure if the tuba players that do the judging are compensated much or at all, but attracting top level orchestra musicians (tpt, tbn, strings ww, perc) to judge these auditions (to make it as real as possible and to get non-tuba feedback) might cost more money than events are willing or able to spend.

IF the intention is to get a real-as-possible audition experience with solid committee-type (REAL) feedback, the committee must be comprised of non-tuba folk. And sometimes the outgoing tubist may be on a panel, so that wouldn’t be out of line to have one on the committee. The tuba player could also give tuba-specific criticism.

IF the intention is to put players in a situation in which they have to play the excerpts under pressure, receive tuba-specific feedback only, that’s fine (keep the status quo), but it doesn’t really measure up to reality. The missing feedback from other musicians and stick-wavers and that extra pressure performing in front of people who don’t know or care how hard the tuba is to play keep the audition from being as beneficial as it could be.

Or maybe it’s the next best thing/best they can come up with, and we should simply be grateful?

[russiantuba]

I did a project in my master's degree where I went through audition lists for the ITEA and Falcone festivals, back to the start of the ITEA organization. This did fill a void in the lack of the availability. You go through the process, which is a lot.

I am not suggesting at lowering the prize, or even charging more for the entry fees, but what if they did pay a panel for the live rounds at minimum? Hire a different panel for the recorded round and offer the option to pay for comments to offset the costs? I quite enjoy it when one of the military musicians posts about the auditions they heard, recorded or live (where you will probably have a tubist in your audition).

I still think that some of the best feedback I received over the years (and some I may have been too young and perhaps too dismissive at the time) were not from tubists. I played Mahler 1 for our orchestra conductor, who was an orchestral bassoonist. I played several excerpts for trombone and horn professors that concurrently held orchestral positions. These were super helpful, and sometimes the unexpected things they would say, changed my entire approach to the piece.

I would like to see ITEA expand on this idea, as it will be a great way to advance the audition experience.

[bloke]

The most realistic mock audition experience would be with string, woodwind, and brass players (top level players) behind a screen, and either offering one candidate the so-called “job“, or declaring no winner…and with no comments.
Life is hard, auditions are hard, auditions experiences are puzzling, and to truly offer an audition-like experience would be to offer precisely an audition-like experience.

[Levaix]

My issue with mock orchestral auditions is I play euphonium.

[Doc]

My issue with mock orchestral auditions is I play euphonium.

Maybe they should have mock military band auditions...

[Alex C]

Basically: what Joe said.

I went to an audition many years ago and called a flute player I knew on the committee. Her first comment was, "Tuba must really be a hard instrument to play." That's what they think after hearing us for a whole day!

If you want to get your ears acclamated, ask a cellist (or even a bassist) to play the first couple of lines of the Vaughan Williams for you. The sound and the attacks will be totally different than any other version you've ever heard. They will probably sight-read it better than you can play it after years of practice.

(You will have to write it up an octave for either instrument.)

[ParLawGod]

The most realistic mock audition experience would be with string, woodwind, and brass players (top level players) behind a screen, and either offering one candidate the so-called “job“, or declaring no winner…and with no comments.

I agree, and would (possibly) add a Conductor into that committee as well.