Joy Key - water key

[bloke]

Please only respond based on personal experience; (I can read stuff on a website). Thanks !

Are these adjustable, as far as the rate of drip, or is it constant?
In other words: Will they necessarily rid a slide bow of water at the rate that it collects, or only at it's own rate?
THIS statement (on the website) strongly hints that it may not keep up with the water removal demands of FatBastard:

Placing your instrument in/on an appropriate stand when resting facilitates the process of keeping your instrument water free.

How often can I expect that the "WaterWick" will need to be cleaned/replaced? (I HATE-HATE-HATE this feature, fwiw, and - to aggravate my hatred - a pair of those suckers is $25 bucks plus postage. It's claimed that a filter thingie will last 3 - 4 months, so that defines well over $50/year...for friggin' "water key maintenance". (I wonder - since I'm NOT a "lime person" - if they might last longer and/or IF they might be able to be cleaned in my chem-clean tub...?? )

(These sorts of issues are why I eschew gadget water keys, but the FatBastard really collects water FAST in the main slide bow, and it has a seriously deleterious effect on (in particular) 2-3 valve combination slurring/legato...ie. "g-r-r-r-r-r" slurs (which make me sound like some kid at hah-skoo "slow-poke-and-assembly" contestz).

[the elephant]

tl;dr — Too slow for tubas. (And then you have no *real* water key.)

Full answer — For me, when I tested one of these years ago, I had to pull the slide and dump about half as often as I did before, but still had to do it regularly, so I did not like it. IMHO, if that design could truly drain fast enough for a tuba being played in cold weather then it would leak.

Nicely made, they work well on trumpets.

Mine was not tuba friendly, though this may have changed since 2014 when I bought one and tested it for about a month. I switched to the Pollard keys on that tuba for locations where a lever will not fit or be accessible. I use levers on places designed for waterkeys, but add them to places not designed for them, and ended up using the Pollards because they do not ever stick. I don't really like them, much, either, but they are miles ahead of Amado keys.

[the elephant]

I might add that they can be a source of cheap entertainment on gigs when affixed to a trombone's handslide crook…

Just sayin'…

[bloke]

COOL...PERFECT response...REAL information

OK...

My plan of action, then, is this:

- Instead of shortening the main slide bow here at blokeplace (as FatBastard requires a SUMMERTIME cold-tuning slide position of all-the-way-in, which is going to define "issues" in the winter) I'm going to have Miraphone make me a SHORTER (and it's wide and tapered, so they'll have a challenge on their hands) main tuning slide bow, I'll have them make it out of "gold brass" (to define it as red-rot-proof) and I will NOT have them drill it.

- Once that custom main slide bow arrives here (rather than where they drilled the original nipple hole) I will drill one at the bottom of the main slide bow IN PLAYING POSITION, and - instead of their awkwardly-bent-otherwise-horizontal-use-water-key - I will use a brass (otherwise same as Melton/B&S nickel-silver, but brass - in keeping with Miraphone styling) water key, drill a hole in the lever end of it, and run a piece of braided line up to where my hand can open the water key quickly/on-the-fly/often. (I HOPE I don't, but I could see where I might ?? have to put a couple of wonky-@ss pulleys on that string. ...IF I can rig it so as I can just snag it with my r.h. pinky finger, then - likely - no "rigging" will be required. If multiple waterkey braided lines were good enough for Barry Tuckwell, then ONE should be good enough for an old bloke.)

[the elephant]

One of our hornists uses a lanyard on a waterkey on his leadpipe (the waterkey having been added when he worked at Osmun in Boston, many years ago). Waterkeys are satanic to most hornists, by the way.

I also try to use undrilled crooks so that I can put the hole/nipple where it needs to be so I can drain it without moving the horn at all.

I hope the new and improved Cerveny learns that this is important, as they usually have the WORST waterkey locations; they are just laughable. Who thinks it's a good idea to have to lay the tuba all the way down flat across your lap to drain the water?



I suppose the traditional Bohemian method was to lay the horn flat across the lap so that the mouthpiece is three feet from the player's face, press the key, and pray that gravity does its thing… ?

[bloke]

Horns - rather than no-or-one-waterkey - need about ten of them...

...and their frantic/constant slide extractions and hurried reinsertions bend/break/warp/wear-out slides on their $5,000 - $25,000 instruments.

Those people are the most during-a-concert-oboe-solo-killers of anyone.

Unavoidably, NOTICING THEM is THE REASON why I load up my instruments (wherever they are actually called for) with water keys.

"disturbing the nodes": humbug
No one (at least no one who is honest) has any idea whether they mess up anything, nor if they might actually help something.
At least, "leaving a bunch of unnecessary metal on the exterior of a mouthpiece" offers an opportunity to form a mouthpiece into some sort of wild/attention-getting shape (but I can accomplish the same thing with whimsical engraved pictures).

[the elephant]

… I can accomplish the same thing with whimsical engraved pictures).

By the way, what was the pic used on the original "Fair Dinkum"?

I like to tell people that my one-piece "Solo" was from your first run of like 75 (or 150?) mouthpieces, but I think those did not have the beer or the name "Solo". Is that correct? If so, mine be from the butt-end of the first full production batch. (I think it was the last one from whichever batch it came from. I remember us talking about it on the phone.)

I love that mouthpiece. Thanks for the slight arm-twist needed to get me to buy it. I had no interest in a new mouthpiece at that time, and it has become my favorite out of all the pieces I have used since I first stepped onto the musical "hamster wheel" in 1979.

[bloke]

That designation (Dave made it up) was actually a designation for a rim inner diameter.

The original cups (I'm thinking...??) had a picture of Atlas holding up the world on them...no?

[humBell]

So they have wicking systems for brass instruments?

I am emminently curious about this, if too lazy to look anything up at the moment.
There is just enough Boston in me to wanna blow a wicked horn!

[Mary Ann]

Because the previous owner had removed the spit valve on the main tuning slide of the NStar and because pulling the slide and putting it back under time stress didn't have me at my best, I put a joy key right next to where the spit valve had been. My experience was, for some reason I had to pull the slide once, and then the joy key started working. It does drip constantly and makes a water spot right below it. It can be a mess but I preferred it to having to empty the slide. Previous owner had offered to put the spit valve back on and maybe I should have let him, but whatever. You could wrap a rag around where the joy key is if you didn't mind the way it looked.