"Contrabass Bugle" vs "Marching Tuba"

[Nemo]

Hello,

I was wondering if there is a real, measurable difference that qualifies the distinction between GG and BBb horns being called different things.

Besides the key and all the other factors that are associated (length, weight, bell size, etc), is there any real difference? (I know that many GG bugles have fewer than 3 valves, but the ones that do have 3 are still called bugles). Otherwise, the minimal differences in construction are much less than the variety of all the instruments we call "tuba"...

Perhaps a better way to phrase it would be, "is this a real difference that matters to the music/sound/playing, or is it stubborn pedants trying to make a distinction where there isn't"?

[bloke]

[Nemo]

I definitely agree that the key of instrument is very important, but is it worthy of describing one as a bugle and one as a mere "marching tuba"? We call both BBb and CC tubas "contrabass tubas" despite a noticable difference in their playing characteristics

[DonO.]

I know a bit about this, having marched competitive drum and bugle corps in the ‘70’s…

The original old school drum and bugle corps formed in the era following WW 2 were literally bugles like the military uses, no valves and a trumpet-ish range. Through the 50’s ones bugles that sounded more like French horns (mellophones) joined the ranks, as well as baritone range bugles. These started out valveless too, but then the rules of competition changed to allow a single valve. So a thumb operated piston was added. When the rules were changed again to allow for one piston and one rotor, the instrument manufacturers followed suit. The piston was still right hand thumb operated and rotor left hand operated. Sometime in the early sixties, someone (not sure who, exactly) got the idea to add a bass voice to the ensemble. And so the contrabass bugle was born. Key of GG, with both the thumb operated piston and the left hand rotor. It’s the only bugle invented for corps playing that didn’t begin with a valveless version.

After I stopped competing with a corps I lost interest, but my understanding is the rules kept on changing. Eventually the rules allowed for 3 valves and people started saying well, if we can use 3 valves, why can’t we just use band instruments? And so the rules changed yet again to allow for instruments in Bb or C. So now, in modern day drum and bugle corps, the instruments are largely indistinguishable from band instruments.

[LibraryMark]

I've always been curious - with a two-valve bugle, what steps do the valves lower the pitch? Sounds to me that there are going to be some gaps in the notes you can play.

[York-aholic]

A GG contrabass’ two pistons function like a ‘normal’ first and second valve (while step and half step). There were indeed gaps.

Take a BBb tuba and hold down the third valve. Now you essentially have a GG contra.

[DonO.]

A GG contrabass’ two pistons function like a ‘normal’ first and second valve (while step and half step). There were indeed gaps.

Take a BBb tuba and hold down the third valve. Now you essentially have a GG contra.

If I remember correctly the right hand thumb operated piston on mine was the whole step, and the left hand rotor was the half step. Yes, there were gaps in the music you could play. But the workaround was that the arrangements simply didn’t include the notes you couldn’t play.

Also, as I remember it, our music was always written in the key of C, and we played the bugle as if it were at trumpet, regardless of the size of the bugle. In other words, a written C was played open but actually sounded G with a built in transposition. This was done to make things easy for beginners. A G scale would be written as a C scale and fingerings were open-piston-both-piston-open-both-rotor-open. I was still playing a G Contra with the thumb operated horizontal piston and left hand rotor until I quit drum corps in 1974. Only a couple of years later Drum Corp international rules changed to allow 2 upright piston valve instruments and a few years later 3 valve instruments were allowed, which of course increased the number of notes that could be played. My understanding is sometime in the 90’s other keys besides G became allowable under DCI rules. You then had Bb, C, and F instruments. The line between bugles and band instruments became very blurred.

[the elephant]

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[York-aholic]

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I agree.

[the elephant]

I wrote out a history of the development of bugles (and specifically contras) but it turned to me *once again* calling "George" a "convicted serial sexual predator" and "The Man Who Raped DCI" (as it always does). HAHAHA!!! So I deleted it.
















But he *is* a convicted serial sexual predator and *many* still consider him to be "The Man Who Raped DCI".