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Do all oils built up shellac on the inner walls of the pistons? Give me some recommendations to use with pretty tight tolerances.

I'm currently using Resilience Oils #1 Light on all of my piston horns except my flugabone (on which I use Hetman Classic). In the past I've tried Al Cass, Blue Juice, Zaja, Monster, La Tromba T2, Roche Thomas (I had an ancient bottle that I REALLY liked and lost), and many others.

Resilience has so far been the best by a significant margin for both speed and longevity. La Tromba T2 was very good for speed but it had a weird smell the longer it sat on the horn. I don't play as much as I should nowadays so take this with a grain of salt, but I have had zero residue issues since switching. So far this is the only oil I have tried that eliminated a chronic first valve issue on my euphonium. I also haven't had to deal with any frozen valves after pulling a neglected horn out of hibernation.

https://www.resilienceoils.com/products ... oil-1-thin

Full disclaimer, I was sent a free demo of the original "F-1" formula (which they also call #2 now). I did like this as it was great for longevity and smoothness, but it was a little too thick for most of my horns. It was promising enough that I bought the light variant when that came out and I don't anticipate switching back at any point. I do like their slide grease as well.

Countdown until bloke shows up saying any oil is fine as long as you use a bunch of it and keep your valves clean: 3... 2... 1... (In all seriousness there's a lot of truth to that. But it does help if your oil isn't contributing to build-up.)

Levaix wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:00 pm, . But it does help if your oil isn't contributing to build-up.)

That's where I'm at. I was absolutely shocked how long it took to clean a thick layer of yellow shellac off of the interior of my valves tonight. Makes me wonder what the hell I'm doing wrong. How do you keep the valves from built up if it's not a matter of picking the right oil?

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:11 pm

Levaix wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:00 pm, . But it does help if your oil isn't contributing to build-up.)

That's where I'm at. I was absolutely shocked how long it took to clean a thick layer of yellow shellac off of the interior of my valves tonight.

That's really gross. I can't say I've ever had that experience. Do you mind me asking what you were using?

I really do like the #1 formula.

For most of the life of this horn I've used ultra pure, but I have tried Hetmans too, maybe the two can't be mixed?

The only thing I have with pistons is my helicon, and I'm using Al Cass on that. I was supposed to have been sent a sample pack of Resiliance products when I was on that other board. They never showed up, so I can't judge them.

Tight tolerances either Hetman 1 or Resilience as well. I've never seen any yellow shellac at any point in time on mine.

I have developed a very strong opinion about lubricants. After 27 plus years of taking apart, washing out, then reassembling the brass instruments of strangers, I have reached a personal conclusion about lubricants and I would like to share my two most consistent conclusions on that subject.

1) Oil valves work better than dry ones.
2) Clean and oiled valves/instrument, works better than dry dirty valves/instrument.

I've noticed that when someone gets excited about finding the "Perfect oil" for their horn, they tend to actually oil the valves more regularly. So is it the oil or is it the sudden interest in keeping their horn properly oiled that helped?

Bonus conclusion about lubricants:

3) What works best for one person/horn may not work best for the next person/horn combo.

Crap. I didn't really answer the original question. I would like to confess my favorite valve oil is:

WAS, the generic oil that we used to get by the gallon from Allied but they no longer sell. So my personal go to oil is now either Bach, Holton, or Blue Juice. I'm a bit nose blind and have been told they have a strong scent.

Lamp oil. Frequently.

Lamp Oil : Blue Juice
50:50

Straight lamp oil wasn't doing the trick for staying power. This works perfectly and my W900 has a tight valve to casing tolerance.

Hi Mark,

On the heels of what Wayne and Matt said (hi guys!)

I settled in on Al Cass for pistons about 15 years ago, oil in the center hole of the back cap before every playing session (so, daily)

I buy it by the case dont seem to go through it THAT fast (3-4 cases in 15 years?),

that regular oiling whether it keeps things flushed clean or lubed or both works for me.

Hope this helps!

--dp

My go-to oils have always been the Hetmans. I keep a small supply on hand - Piston, Light Piston, Classic Piston, Rotor, and Light Rotor. Each of my horns seems to have a preference (or perhaps it is just ME who has the preference???)...though I agree 100% that there is no subsitute for routine/regular oiling and maintenance.

I can (usually) go a couple weeks without picking up my euphonium, and I guess any oil in there dries out, and I put new oil on top of it, and the problem compounds every time I do that.

Not sure how to deal with that. I'm 51 years old, and I've never had that issue before with any instrument, piston or rotor

ONLY Resilliance on everything.

no...
I’m not posting anything valve-oil-informational here… I’ve posted my tremendously successful and tremendously inexpensive tack too many times.
Most people seem to like the idea of magic potions and spending money on them. So be it.
I sell some of that stuff, so...

...but I am the guy who rounded up four 50-gallon plastic barrels with hoop-closure tops, lines them with huge 50-cent bags, takes about five to six weeks to fill them all up with trash, carries those four bags of trash to the landfill six miles away (on the way to other places that I regularly go), and pays $2 (again: maybe eight times each year) to throw those four bags of trash in the landfill’s dumpster, instead of subscribing to some expensive and dubious trash collection service...
...so my ANNUAL trash disposal cost - including those bags - is roughly $30 - $35 (with limbs and brush going into washes and ravines - or used as heating fuel)...

...and I’m not going to be spending as much money, annually, on some super-thin evaporative oil as I do on something as important as sanitation and trash removal.

Matt said it.

I will grab some new commercial product from our businesses retail stock when I’m stuck, but hopefully instead – when I’m stuck, I will scrounge through some used instruments that we’ve bought for resale, and find a half-used bottle of storebrand, instead.

bloke “no updated barn construction progress pics in the “Lounge” forum, today...The fart-remnants from the hurricane are passing through, and standing out in very windy rain is annoying.”

Like that certain bloke who shall remain nameless, I'm a "copious amounts of lamp oil because it works and it's cheap" guy. However...

I ordered the tuning slide grease and slide lube from Resilience, both of which I really like. But as a bonus (for trial??? IDK) I received a small bottle of the light valve oil and the heavier valve oil. I decided to try them out on the Conn 20J - both work great, but I lean toward the light oil. I don't play the 20J all that often, so it has lasted a while.

Now if I only gave the 20J a thorough vinegar bath, got new felts for the valves (anyone have a link or recommendations?) and had about 10min of dent ball and dent machine work done, it would be as good as I would ever need/want it to be. The Resilience stuff works well for me so far. But the rotary tubas get blokeified.

Agreed. I used to really like the Holton Electric oil, but anymore my valve oil stash is filled with half-spent bottles of whatever came out of used horn cases and returned rentals. Back when I was a road rep, I scrounged every already-open bottle I could get to give to teachers in a pinch. It’s possible some of those ended up in my pocket if I was in a pinch...


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I have been a "grab whatever" guy, but after working on getting built up off of my valves yesterday, I thought it was question worth asking

I cant be the only one that lets a horn sit without playing for a couple weeks at a time. I know too many people that have multiple instruments for that to be the case. Many the question should have been (and I can start a new thread if needed)

How to keep old valve oil from building up?

OK...

I own one tuba that has one slide that gets moved an inch this way or that when played. With all of my other instruments, the slides remain stationary. I put the same oil on that slide that I put on the valves. The same strategy works with very well-made trumpets…though tubas, admittedly, need to be made even better for this to work with tubas. I also use that same oil on the other slides, instead of grease. That tack prevents grease from migrating to valves. The slides on all of my instruments are well-fit and well-aligned enough so that oil suffices.

I can’t help but wonder if some people’s valves’ residue is actually a grease oil mixture. Again, the oil that I use evaporates completely away. I (re-)apply it every time I play the instrument for a 1 to 2 hour practice session, rehearsal, or concert.