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I'm considering it. Not because I think it's the most perfect idea, but because it's a sufficient idea. Maybe the one I have now, maybe not. More asking about the concept/key/sound output than the particular horn.

Has anyone done this, for any significant amount of time? All of my playing is in a small/medium sized orchestra right now. Would love to hear some experiences doing this. Thanks!

I could see doing this with a big Eb, but not F. To my ears, that one whole step makes a big difference re: fundamental and authority.

I would advise against using an F tuba for everything, because it is very hard to wash your clothes or do the dishes inside an F tuba. You might want to keep at least a few other appliances.



real answer: I think you will miss the presence/bottom that a contrabass tuba provides, even in a small group.

I did this for several years (played nuthin but F tuba)...because that's all that I owned. I swapped a 4-valve 186 C (one of the sucky ones - with a flat open G and E) for an old Alex C, realized that I hated that too (sucked just as bad, if not worse), sold it, and bought nothing to replace it.

I was hired a bunch, and no one (particularly since pre-internet / pre-social-media, and I almost never encountered another toobuh-playuh) tried to explain to me why that wouldn't work.

When Ed Jones job's audition was announced, I thought I would go and audition for fun (and - mostly - visit my daughter), I borrowed a Willson CC whatchamacall. It was hard to play (in tune), a struggled with it for a couple of months, did the for-fun audition (I ain't moving to DFW, and they wouldn't want me anyway), and was advanced to the semi-whatevers.

I thought it would be nice to own a longer tuba (though certainly not that one), and built that (no-longer-owned/plays-like-a-dream) Buescher helicon in C. After that, I bought something that sat in my lap - a 5450 thing. I like it a bunch. The helicon did some things better and the 5450 does some things better.

After quite a few more years, I'm (strongly) revisiting my childhood with B-flat tubas.

I've always used some sort of E-flat tuba (I'm weak at reading E-flat, and usually read it like treble-clef B-flat trumpet music) for sit-down jazz gigs (where sheet music is almost never involved). My current one is the "dream" one, because it's a fake B-flat: a late 50's recording bell 3+1 comp Besson.
- good tuning
- sounds like a big B-flat
- fully chromatic
- jazz gig "optics"

My particular F tuba (which I bought new in 1982) is an exceptional one (as everyone who plays it has agreed). It's immune from the bloke "if it collects dust" rule.

Play what you want. Without the internet, there would be no informed nor un-informed nor stupid-bloke opinions to taint what you decide/like to do - in regards to anything-in-particular. The internet is loaded with karens. I refer to them as "fascio-phrenics". (maybe...?? I'm one. )

I’d probably do it.

I really don’t need two horns, but I have two, and neither put me in any debt, so I keep them.

Realistically I could do everything I need on my big F. I normally use that horn when I teach, and I have more gigs that fit F tuba than big C tuba, with the exception of the ONE big band I play with once a week.

I’d pick a big F like mine, or a big Eb. Rotary F won’t give you what you want in a one-tuba situation imo.

You should’ve kept the Besson Eb. I reckon that would’ve been better equipped to handle everything.

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:16 pm You should’ve kept the Besson Eb. I reckon that would’ve been better equipped to handle everything.

Played well, but ergonomics were a no-go. I like F fingerings better than Eb, too, feels more natural.

I think it’s doable unless you’re in a large band. Different sound concept, but it works. I’ve done a lot with my 182, and that’s tiny even for an F.

But also this is why I got the 184. It’s an F tuba with a better low range. 10/10 can recommend.

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:16 pm You should’ve kept the Besson Eb. I reckon that would’ve been better equipped to handle everything.

That's what Fletcher used with the LSO. Didn't he help design the Sovereign? And then with its larger 19 inch bell but no corresponding mods to the bugle had to have it cut so it wouldn't play flat, known as the "Fletcher cut"?

Here is my highly skewed perspective on this:

I see the contrabass tuba as my Musical Homebase at all times. It is what I spend most of my time practicing. In fact, I was taught to warm up on the CC FIRST if I'm about to practice on F. (The reasons for this are numerous.)

With that in mind, I have had to get by using only an F tuba and IT SUCKED MIGHTILY. In my two quintets I only play F tuba. I am the opposite of Joe in this regard in that I only bring additional instruments to work when there is absolutely no acceptable way to do the job using a single instrument. And by acceptable, I mean in a musical context, and not key or range or anything else. If the orchestration requires "light" or "transparent" I use F regardless of the range of the part. If I need density or volume I will choose one of my CC tubas.

So I see a contrabass as the tuba voice, whereas I see F only as a *bass tuba* voice. I do not want a generic tuba voice in chamber music, but something light and transparent; conversely, I only like F in the orchestra when I need to be able to relax and play out — but not STICK out.

In the other direction, I have also had to use my Holton 345 for everything, too. Including quintet.

Yeah, it works. I get very good clarity out of my Holton. It is also very easy — for me — to play softly with that same clarity. (Most of the Conn 2xJ series horns and the MW 6/4 tubas I have played are — again: FOR ME — simply loud.) So I was able to pull off a dozen or so quintet gigs with the big boy, but I WOULD NEVER CHOOSE TO DO THIS.

I do not believe in a "do-it-all" tuba. I see "tubas" and the much more specialized "bass tuba" voice as being separate and distinct from one another, like bassoon or upright bass. They do not cross over well in my mind.

The one bugaboo I have with this mindset is that half of the lit in my quintet books was arranged by someone who was hearing a generic "tuba" voice and the other half is squarely in the realm of the specialized voice of the bass tuba. I only use my F tuba, and I am uncomfortable with that, at times. I hate playing what are obviously BBb tuba parts on the F tuba, but I do it because many times we have to literally "toot and scoot" to cover three or four gigs in a morning. Play, pack, run, repeat. Dragging along a second, even larger tuba for such work would suck. After 28 years here I won't bother with that.

Those two early 1980s jazz band LPs that were recorded in Ardent in Memphis were recorded with - again - “the only tuba I had”.
I really don’t think the engineer, John Hampton, did much of anything to my sound, and I don’t think it sounds thin or throaty on the recordings. I really think that I had an easier time putting out a “broad bass” type of sound with that instrument (featuring a bell not unlike a 186 bell) than I would have had with something like an Olds O-99 (shhhh….maybe even…??) a typical B-flat or C 186 (which would feature longer pieces of cylindrical tubing).
I’ve linked those recordings several times, and I’m not going to link them again here. People can find them, listen to them, and decide for themselves how that F tuba sounds (and I was not playing it with a deep-cupped mouthpiece).

I continue to believe that things feel way more different to us than they sound to others, and our spouses and colleagues often might tend to patronize us (just a bit), when it seems really important to us, yet they really don’t hear much of a difference.

possible exception:
I believe FatBastard sounds (perhaps “subtly”) different from most F tubas.

If I were going to try to to do that, I'd do it first and see how it worked, or whether I found myself saying, um, nah --- I wanna play this OTHER tuba for this whatever.

It's been a long time since I heard anything about the larger Yammie F piston tuba, but back then when I was hearing about it, some people seemed to think it might work for that. Me, nope; I'd be in the large Eb camp.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:59 am Play what you want. Without the internet, there would be no informed nor un-informed nor stupid-bloke opinions to taint what you decide/like to do - in regards to anything-in-particular.

I'll probably give it a try. As a non-professional, I like the idea of owning 1 tuba. And I like to make things easy for myself. However, whatever "easy" is can vary tremendously.

"Easy" for a large band is probably a large BBb. That's what I had anticipated the Rudy being used for.

But, surprise, I'm in a medium-sized orchestra now instead. "Easy" in this group is more like a tuba that can be heard, is "enough," and doesn't obliterate everything. The Rudy works fine, but we all know it's not necessary. Maybe the F is too small... but I've long believed that so few 3/4 CC tubas exist, because people end up using full-sized F tubas instead, so I'm not sure that a medium CC tuba would be a better option.

I need to get the fingerings under my, uh, fingers, and then see how it goes. This is a setting where VOLUME isn't the biggest concern, and blending with the rest of the brass shouldn't be an issue. Unless the rep list has a lot of big stuff or has a lot of pedal range adventures, I'm sure the notes will all be there.

Otherwise, if I make this my only tuba, then it'll be a very easy decision.

I'm not really sure that larger tubas are really that much louder, but only sound different - and (again) more different to their operators than to others.
It's always surprising how LITTLE decibel meters move when someone really BLATTS on a tuba.

analogy:
hobby "glow-fuel" burning airplanes:
99.999% of the population - That's one of those toy airplanes that burn gasoline
0.001% of the population - WOW !!! That's a 116" CubCrafters XCub 60cc ARF, (model HAN5260, made by Hangar 9)

bloke "faking it...I know NOTHING about this stuff. Do NOT P.M. me about it !"

186

or a 188. If you're going to own ONE horn....

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:02 pm or a 188. If you're going to own ONE horn....

But I already have the F tuba

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:04 pm

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:02 pm or a 188. If you're going to own ONE horn....

But I already have the F tuba

which you will sell in 6 months

I did this for a while, mainly because the gigs I had were on F. After a year subbing in a symphony and all the cool kids doing more solos on CC, I have gone with more of a CC focus and some cross training.

With that being said Bort, to answer your question, it would depend on what F tuba. A Meinl Weston 182 probably won't cut it for you. Having my Gronitz PF 125 allows me to be very flexible on that. I only use F tuba in quintet (then again, that is a major reason I went with the Gronitz). So much traditional band music is in octaves, so you could play the top octave. You know your groups... if you are playing a lot of newer John Mackey kind of stuff, you might want to keep a big horn.

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:07 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:04 pm

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:02 pm or a 188. If you're going to own ONE horn....

But I already have the F tuba

which you will sell in 6 months

Is there a line for that F tuba yet that I should stand in? It looks like fun.