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Last night I got started on my Conn/Pan American helicon project. The sousaphone is a Pan American (similar to the 14K, but slightly smaller bore, I discovered). The bell is from a Conn Giant Eb. In the photo below, I had removed the bell elbow from the sousaphone and simply inserted the upright bell to see what it will look like. The bell is going to be straightened out and cut to fit tomorrow. Hopefully I won't need to do too much length adjustment to keep it in BBb since the bell is rather long.



For the sousaphone, I will need to dedent what I can with my magnets and balls, replace a few braces, flip the first valve slide, replace the gooseneck, and repair the neck (it's got a broken off bit stuck inside).

After I started this last night I had a bit of an "Oh crap! Now I'm committed" moment because I was originally planning to use this sousaphone at a gig on Nov. 4th, just getting it into playing shape. Now I better get on it!

Tubajug wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:48 am Last night I got started on my Conn/Pan American helicon project. The sousaphone is a Pan American (similar to the 14K, but slightly smaller bore, I discovered). The bell is from a Conn Giant Eb. In the photo below, I had removed the bell elbow from the sousaphone and simply inserted the upright bell to see what it will look like. The bell is going to be straightened out and cut to fit tomorrow. Hopefully I won't need to do too much length adjustment to keep it in BBb since the bell is rather long.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you just play it as a Sousaphone? Why modify it to a helicon bass? Again, just curious, as the impetus for the Sousaphone in the first place (courtesy of Sousa himself, back in 1892) was to get a better sounding bass than a helicon.

My first thought is "Because I can!" haha!

I also like the balance of a helicon better. I like that the bell isn't right near my face, and it's got a lower center of gravity. I also just think they're cool!

Tubajug wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:30 am I also like the balance of a helicon better… it's got a lower center of gravity.

I’m with you 100%.

Good luck! I’ll be following this thread.

Well, I successfully botched cutting the bell. The diameter of the cut end is about 1/8" larger than the diameter of the ferrule it goes into. Just got too anxious and went for it rather than starting where I knew it would be smaller and then trimming.

I guess we'll see where I go from here. Crap.

I was able to get another bell from a friend in Omaha. He pulled it off an old Conn Eb. It appears to be the top action version of the horn I got my bell from, so it should be essentially the same. He got it all smoothed out for me and I'm going to pick it up on Saturday. I've got the ferrule off and ready to use as the indicator for where to cut this time!

In the meantime, I've been taking it apart a bit more and cleaning it up beyond what I was going to do originally. I'll get some pictures uploaded here soon, but it looks like I'll be back in business.

Now the most important question, do I call it a Pan AmeriConn or a Conn American helicon??

Here is some of the work I did with removing tarnish and buffing:



I decided to go ahead and pull it most of the way apart to really get it done right:



Here is the horn I'm buying from my friend in Omaha to replace the bell I botched (he's already got the bell pulled off and smoothed out):

I picked up the bell from my friend on Saturday and began getting it ready to cut. I put the ferrule on and marked the top and bottom, then the dotted line is how far in the bell is inserted into the ferrule. That should be the ultimate length. I'm going to start by cutting the line on top to be safe.



After I did that, I started polishing it up a bit:



I'm going to try and push myself to get this done, or at least playable, by Friday. If I don't, I'll use my little Eb helicon for the gig that night, but it would be fun to take this one out if I can get it.

TTFN!

Down the rabbit hole I go...

What I imagined to be a "simple" bell-swap to create a helicon is turning into a full-on project horn. The problem is, now that I know how to do more and more things on my own, I have a harder time letting things go. I've now got the almost the entire valve section torn down because there are dents in the tubing and crooks I can address, not to mention previous sloppy solder work. There are cracks in the second valve crook, and the list goes on...

My biggest worry will be getting it all to line up when I put it back together... the valve section issues began when I thought I would do a "simple" flip of the first valve slide...

One plus though, is that it will be easier to buff and polish the nooks and crannies with most of the tubing off the valve block.

Hows the Hell(ish)-Conn going? Lol... Im really interested to see how its going.

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Thanks for the inquiry! It's been slow going lately. I'm a band teacher by day and father of 6 by day and night, so I only get a few minutes here and there to tinker.

I've got the main branches as dent free as I can get them with my homemade tools (aka magnet and balls bearings). I also have disassembled it much more than I had originally anticipated, so that will mean a bit longer process of reassembly and clean up. It's a bit of a rabbit hole... take something apart, find another issue, address that issue, find another... kind of like working on our house (which is another reason I haven't done much on this).

I'll be sure to update it as I get something more "post worthy" done. Thanks!

Even factory Conn B-flat helicons’ bells seem to be quite long, which defines a tendency for them to roll forward - due to the weight.

Also – with the bell out there so far to the front, they seem to offer the same sort of experience as a recording bass - whereby everyone can hear them quite well, other than the operator themselves.

With a 1920s Buescher design, the bell is much shorter, and quite a bit of the length of the instrument is wound up (tuning slide on top of the valveset) in small tubing before the valve block is encountered. They only did this on the helicon version, to avoid the long bell thing.

I do like the short bell Buescher helicons (at least in looks anyway, I've never actually played one, but heard good things about them). We'll see how this goes when it's all put together.

I'm not attempting to be disheartening - and any helicon (particularly to someone who is owning/building their first one) is exciting...

I'm just comparing.

Mark Jones just posted this picture. Notice how there's a wide-bowed main slide which hovers over the rest of the valveset (consuming considerable length, and allowing the bell to be shorter - even though the instrument's "circle" isn't particularly large in circumference/diameter).

Thanks for the photo. I really do like my little Martin Eb helicon. It's very light and well balanced, super easy to play with a good sound too. It just doesn't have the sonic "weight" I need in the groups I would use a sousaphone/helicon with.

I've been told by some that my homemade helicon resembles the early Conn helicons with a bell that sticks out pretty far:



If worse comes to worse and I don't like it, I've still got the elbow and bell to turn it back into a sousaphone, plus I will have done all the work to get it into better shape!

I made two new bow guards for my helicon using half-oval brass stock



I cut them to shape with a dremel, then shaped with a belt sander, and buffed smooth.









I then heated it up to soften it before bending it to shape, wiring it down and soldering it.











I've put this on pause while I get working on my Martin Mammoth.

I've played OEM Conn BB-flat helicons (similar to 14K/32K/etc...sousaphones)...and the bells ARE long on those.

To me, they're FRONT-heavy.

Though it WOULD add weight onto your shoulder, I wonder if something a leak-proof sack of sand...INSIDE a cordura bag...with velcro straps...might be something that would counteract/counterweight this...strapped to the 2nd branch...(??)

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:34 pm I've played OEM Conn BB-flat helicons (similar to 14K/32K/etc...sousaphones)...and the bells ARE long on those.

To me, they're FRONT-heavy.

Though it WOULD add weight onto your shoulder, I wonder if something a leak-proof sack of sand...INSIDE a cordura bag...with velcro straps...might be something that would counteract/counterweight this...strapped to the 2nd branch...(??)

That's certainly something to consider. I'll find out when it's all together! If it's awful, I've still got the bell elbow and sousaphone bell. I could always just put it back as a sousaphone...

Pan Aheliconn

Man, I can't believe I started this thing a year ago! That's crazy...talk about a project horn...

I'll get pictures up later, but at the moment I've gotten the valve section put back together (including flipping the first valve slide) and I've procured a Conn 56J bell to use. I've almost got the bugle put back together.

I'm trying to source tubing to lengthen the main slide to compensate for the shorter bell. Pictures later!