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not completely a joke
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:19 pm
by bloke
Has anyone actually experimented with one of those air mattress inflating bellows, a plastic tube (probably adapting the large one included down to a quite small one), and sustaining long pitches in that manner?
It seems to me that someone would have to develop finesse with the bellows… Probably extraordinary finesse (if it actually worked).
Circular breathing is not musical. Everyone I’ve ever heard do it (tuba) it ends up with a tone and/or pitch distortion in the midst of it, accompanied with a loud distracting sniff - just about as aurally distracting as someone knocking over a mute.
(I can circular breathe on epic resistance instruments - such as oboe - etc., without making any disturbing noises, but – when I’ve done it playing the tuba – I end up with the same unacceptable results as with others. That having been said, I have encountered so many professionals’ instruments with such noisy valves, that I suppose the distracting loud sniff really isn’t all that much more unnecessary noise then is being routinely created. 
)
…so I would actually prefer a yes or no answer – and elaboration if yes – to the part of my post in bold, rather than going off about the other stuff that I probably should have not posted… though that certainly wouldn’t have kept people from “going off“. 
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:43 pm
by Mary Ann
No, and I think you are nuts.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:23 pm
by peterbas
.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:52 pm
by bloke
‘ completely aware that it’s been done before, which is why I asked if anyone here had done it…
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:46 am
by humBell
Does the hose go through the side of the mouth?
Seems like that might affect one's embouchure...
Perhaps it is for use by experts who wouldn't be distracted by such a thing. I myself would try sticking it up my nose if i had to use such a thing.
And here i was hoping it would also do the lip buzzing for me...
Which reminded me of my early similar attempts to get a balloon to play... But my recollection is that the whole stretching the opening of the balloon and releasing the air, while can buzz pretty effectively in open air, i had difficulty feeding that through a mouthpiece for whatever reason.
I should try that again, and revitalize my dreams of playing a duet with a Mortimer Snerd, or one his buddies.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:50 am
by bloke
People post drawings and photographs of that ancient device and chuckle, but never rig up anything for themselves to see how poorly or how well something like that might actually work.
ie: “ ha ha ha… Imagine cloth diapers:
Washing them out and using them for the two or three years they are needed, rather than spending thousands of dollars to keep human waste above the ground, and filling up landfills.”
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:05 am
by iiipopes
Back in the 1920's, there was actually an ad (I have since looked for it and not found it) in some magazine that advertised what was essentially a pump attached to a rubber hose surgically implanted between two ribs into a lung to provide additional air support for playing. Some tuba player was in the picture lauding its benefits. Quackery at its "finest." No, thank you. No artificial breathing apparatus of any kind for me, external or internal. Thanks for posting.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:35 pm
by peterbas
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Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:35 pm
by peterbas
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Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:26 pm
by tubanh84
bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:19 pm
Has anyone actually experimented with one of those air mattress inflating bellows, a plastic tube (probably adapting the large one included down to a quite small one), and sustaining long pitches in that manner?
It seems to me that someone would have to develop finesse with the bellows… Probably extraordinary finesse (if it actually worked).
Circular breathing is not musical. Everyone I’ve ever heard do it (tuba) it ends up with a tone and/or pitch distortion in the midst of it, accompanied with a loud distracting sniff - just about as aurally distracting as someone knocking over a mute.
(I can circular breathe on epic resistance instruments - such as oboe - etc., without making any disturbing noises, but – when I’ve done it playing the tuba – I end up with the same unacceptable results as with others. That having been said, I have encountered so many professionals’ instruments with such noisy valves, that I suppose the distracting loud sniff really isn’t all that much more unnecessary noise then is being routinely created. )
…so I would actually prefer a yes or no answer – and elaboration if yes – to the part of my post in bold, rather than going off about the other stuff that I probably should have not posted… though that certainly wouldn’t have kept people from “going off“.
Wouldn't that just be a tuba version of uillean pipes? In your plan, what is the source of vibration?
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:35 pm
by bloke
tubanh84 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:26 pm
Wouldn't that just be a tuba version of uillean pipes? In your plan, what is the source of vibration?
A small tube would go in the side of the lips, the player would close off the air to the back of their mouth, and they would control their lips as they customarily would otherwise.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:21 pm
by cjk
there are these newfangled E-lectronic keyboards which can sustain notes indefinitely until the power goes out.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:50 pm
by TheDoctor
You may be on to something, bloke.
I can see it now:
years into future
All tubaists now carry sophisticated bellows, purpou$e built for tuba-ing that are operated by underarm attachments, so that you must flap like a bird to use them
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:15 pm
by arpthark
bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:19 pm
…so I would actually prefer a yes or no answer
no
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:30 pm
by humBell
arpthark wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:15 pm
bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:19 pm
…so I would actually prefer a yes or no answer
no
Sorry, i missed that part.
No.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:37 pm
by humBell
I've got a lot of reading to do... At least when i get the time.
Thanks!
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:35 am
by P@rick
bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:19 pm
Has anyone actually experimented with one of those air mattress inflating bellows, a plastic tube (probably adapting the large one included down to a quite small one), and sustaining long pitches in that manner?[/i]
Not that I take an air mattress for experimenting, but whenever I "have to" inflate an air matrass/flotation device/balloon/etc, I experiment my breathing. Isn't this a habit for every Tuba player? 
...something needs to be inflated..."oh, he is a Tuba player"...
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:29 am
by cjk
Many years ago, I saw pictures of some sort of mechanical tuba playing device playing a Rudolf Meinl tuba. IIRC, it was part of a Rudolf Meinl booth or something at a big tuba show? The specifics are really hazy tbh.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:44 am
by bloke
The idea of those small bellows is that the player (assuming a “musically-sensitive” foot) would be in complete control of the amount of air supplied through the tiny tube to the edge of the lips, rather than some machine pumping in whatever quantity it chose to pump in and also making some absurd buzzing noise.
I’m not
advocating this… I’m just wondering if anyone’s tried it, and I would maybe like to fool around with it… Is that all that crazy?
I also extended my C tuba to B (natural) and played it that way for a few weeks and also on a couple of jobs (pops concerts, which heavily leaned towards the guitar keys). It sounded fine, played just as well in tune, and it got me outside of my “box” as well as thinking in a little bit different way. I didn’t ask whether anyone else had ever done that, because I suspected that no one had the courage.
Re: not completely a joke
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:19 am
by arpthark
re B tuba: I'm playing an Eb helicon that was poorly cut to F and ended up in E at Tuba Christmas this year. E fingerings have been fun to figure out. Courageous, idk, but fun.
)
