Eastman 832 4/4 CC - four month impressions/review

[arpthark]

I like it.

Thanks for reading.

[bloke]

Don't dent the damn thing.

https://tenor.com/beNpf.gif

[sweaty]

Don't drop your sheet music in your spit puddle.

[Mary Ann]

A local music store got in three Eastmans and I tried two of them, just a week or two ago; one was a rotary F and played like a rotary F, and the other was this 832 CC. It was way too big for ME to physically haul around but I can see why you like it.

[arpthark]

Don't dent the damn thing.

https://tenor.com/beNpf.gif

Last night at a rehearsal with my brass chamber group -- about six to ten players with variable instrumentation -- somebody during a break stepped on the bell and it now has a nice crease in it. Not too bad.

I also gave it a nice belt buckle scrrratch one concert where I had to stand and play a cheesy Dixieland solo, but that is pretty minor.
----
Five month impression/review: still like it. What a nice sound! Slides are nicely fitted, pistons are quick and came vented. I'm playing the best CC tuba playing of my life since I was in college. I owe a lot to this great tuba, which makes everything easy. Oh yeah, I guess I am practicing more, too...

Intonation = almost completely dead-on, EXCEPT pushing in for Bb in the staff (odd for me, but the only tuning quirk).

[bloke]

One of those (the 6XX version, admittedly) passed through my hands quite a few months ago, and I think they're about the best acoustical design of any of the compact C tubas - specifically: those which started with the idea of cutting down a 4/4 York or Holton B-flat. (I haven't played the more expensive version of the same size basic instrument - this 8XX version - that they offer now, fwiw.)
It's pretty clear (re: my ridiculous quantity of posts) that I've become a whole lot like a reformed smoker regarding C & B-flat tubas, just lately. Particularly with instruments in this size range, B-flats are just as facile as C instruments and - to my ears - a bit more resonant, but whatever.
This is a really good design for a 4/4 York/Holton-style C.

more B-flat politikin': (IE: OFF TOPIC)
Besides the knockoffs of the new-style King model 2341 tubas that I've seen out there, I think it would be really interesting to see a high-end replica of the York/Holton on slightly smaller 4/4 design, and yes - with a .687" or .689" bore, and maybe an extra valve to be fully chromatic. The one that I've put together - along with those that several others have put together before me - offer a really interesting type of resonance character in their sound, rather than a sort of a generic/all-purpose type of sound. Holton's last version, the 331 B-flat, nearly hit the spot, yet featured a bell diameter cut down by an inch perhaps at Mr Phillips suggestion...??), and Holton's old 'forever' .665" bore size.

[arpthark]

One of those passed through my hands quite a few months ago, and I think they're about the best acoustical design of any of the compact C tubas - all of which started with the idea of cutting down a 4/4 York B-flat. (I haven't played the more expensive version of the same size instrument that they offer now, fwiw.)
It's pretty clear that I've become a whole lot like a reformed smoker regarding C & B-flat tubas, just lately. Particularly with instruments in this size range, B-flats are just as facile as C instruments and - to my ears - a bit more resonant) but whatever.
This is a really good design for a 4/4 York/Holton-style C.

I used to own a B&S PT-20P (now the 4197). On paper, it should be almost the same -- wide bell, compact 4/4 size. (This was before B&S came out with the PT-606 York copy thing.) But I had to work a hell of a lot harder on the PT-20 to get the same type of resonance I am getting on the Eastman, and intonation was more suspect (20c sharp 3rd partial, anyone?).

One of the key differences is the smaller bore of the Eastman. I think that makes it a slam dunk and really helps the instrument's facility, and does almost nothing to hamper the sound or tone quality.

Something in my own playing that I am learning, after dealing with tremor issues and focal-dystonia-like symptoms that plagued the end of my college career, is that smaller can be better. After selling my other large tubas, taking a few years off and moving to smaller equipment (mouthpiece/tuba), those symptoms have completely disappeared. Psychological? Maybe, but I am very happy and enjoying playing again.

[bort2.0]

I'm glad it's working out so well for you!

Honest question... Is this based on your experience underneath the bell, or is it based on feedback that you're getting from others at a distance, or by listening to yourself and recordings with an ensemble?

The reason I ask is because some people, at all levels including very very high levels, will comment about the sound and perceptions underneath the Bell being far different than the sound and perceptions out in the hall so to speak. And, it seems like that is more of a consideration for tubas that are about the shape and size of the ones you're talking about.

I haven't had a chance to try an Eastman yet, but have played a few of the pt-20 over the years. I like them a lot, but I think they have that weird kind of low range that sounds like a 4/4 being pushed a little bit too hard. You can overcome that with practice and mouthpiece selection to an extent, and maybe this is what you're referring to in some way. It's almost like the tuba is saying, okay I'll do this, but I'm not going to be happy about it.

And to be clear, I'm talking about maybe the last 10% of headroom anyway, so almost always, it's not a problem. But when I was playing tubes of that size, I was in situations where I was having to push too hard too often, and things like that did become quite noticeable quite frequently.

Compared to the 1291, we seem to do just about everything very well and accepted as much air as I wanted to give it without hesitation.

[bloke]

to Blake:
Two or three of those early-issued Michigan-sold B&S-made C tuba models seem (??) to be built using the bugle design from a sort of "piggy"-style C instrument that B&S engraved (pre-Michigan) as the "Symphonie modell" >> C << tuba.

If my belief is correct about two or three of those models, that would explain why all of them offer me just about exactly the same difficulties in tuning.

If I'm allowed to continue to comment on things about which I'm not any sort of expert, I've also always wondered if continuous struggling to lip badly out of tune partials in tune on tubas might be part of what leads to some of the tremor problems that some people struggle with. >>> I have no idea about this. <<< that having been said, a couple of decades ago I decided that my top priority in choosing instruments for myself would be choosing those which were easy to play in tune. I think this particular Eastman C tuba falls into the easy to play in tune category.

to Brett:
As my 32" tall Holton B-flat is (fairly) close to the same footprint, I would comment that a tuba seems much louder when the top of the bell is just about at the same height as the top of my head, but there's also the fact that the resonance the instrument offers a good bit of fist - if desired, so that's also a factor...
...anecdote:
The first orchestral work I ever played on this instrument was Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra". There's a very disruptive low B-natural towards the beginning of the final very quick tempo movement. To my ears (right next to the bell rim), it sounded like one of those fire engine "get out of the way" horns, but - on a recording Mrs. bloke made from the mezzanine, it simply just sounded "very loud".
(I linked a group of short excerpts from that performance on this site a couple of years ago.)

[Mary Ann]

If I'm allowed to continue to comment on things about which I'm not any sort of expert, I've also always wondered if continuous struggling to lip badly out of tune partials in tune on tubas might be part of what leads to some of the tremor problems that some people struggle with. >>> I have no idea about this. <<< that having been said, a couple of decades ago I decided that my top priority in choosing instruments for myself would be choosing those which were easy to play in tune. I think this particular Eastman C tuba falls into the easy to play in tune category.

I can comment on that. Embouchure dystonia ("tremor problems") comes from focusing Too Much on the chops. So -- if someone is focusing on their chops to do that lipping, yup. If it is only near the beginning of the tremor problem (when basically everyone will then concentrate MORE on the chops, making it worse) then, if there is something about the instrument that forces a chop focus, changing the instrument to a more playable one could cause one to sidestep full development of dystonia. I DO know enough to comment on this. When I developed it, it was on horn after trying to play high range without the adequate technique (lousy, basically absent, teaching.) Every note I played suddenly sounded like a lip trill, in certain ranges. And I couldn't make it stop. It is now years later and I can play the horn as long as it isn't under stress. Even then, suddenly some muscles will decide they are going to do strange things, and the auto-response is to very quickly change the lip position (collapse it basically) in order to keep playing.
I had one session with Jan Kagarice, who used four expensive hours to give me a concept she could have explained in about half an hour, but that's a different story. It was her input that allowed me to figure out how to re-learn how to play, so despite the frustration with the methodology, I have her to thank for being able to play at all.

[bloke]

On rare occasions (sick, exhausted, and playing instruments which required some epic lipping for good intonation) I have experienced lip tremors for a short time during isolated instances. This prompts me to wonder if this problem might be more physical, or just as physical as it is psychological.

When I was 21, I programmed a very long and challenging recital for myself. It was probably three times as long as was required for the degree, but there was just stuff I wanted to play. I got very ill with some sort of flu-like thing a couple of days before that recital, but just couldn't let up. I remember playing a 184 - that requires a good bit of lipping - and suddenly encountering some tremors during a slow movement. I managed somehow to make it seem as though it was vibrato, took my mouth away during a rest, took some deep breaths, and was able to dismiss it, but it absolutely occurred. (fwiw, I have no memory of being nervous during that recital. I was completely prepared for it, had done so much performing during the previous several years that it just didn't bother me, but absolutely was sick and exhausted.)

My complete knowledge of this malady is: "???"

[Mary Ann]

On rare occasions (sick, exhausted, and playing instruments which required some epic lipping for good intonation) I have experienced lip tremors for a short time during isolated instances. This prompts me to wonder if this problem might be more physical, or just as physical as it is psychological.

???

It is NOT a psychological problem, and anyone who tells you that is an ignorant cuss word. It is a brain path problem that is PHYSICAL and it takes a change in FOCUS to sidestep that brain path problem, because focus is part of the brain path.

Joaquin Farias uses a method that works on a person's mindset, but that IS a change in FOCUS. I can get pretty exercised about the lack of understanding of what is going on with dystonia. I can recommend a book you can read that explains the brain path concept, but it is not about dystonia; it's about the brain. I found the book fascinating but I like reading esoteric stuff. I may not still have the book and can't remember the title, but if you were interested (I suspect not) I could try to find it.

[bloke]

I suspect you are correct, and whether or not I ever get to read the book I suspect you are correct.

[arpthark]

re: dystonia stuff, I was working too hard to play, lots of tension, playing ALL the time with few breaks, auditioning in high-pressure situations, recording competition music, all that jazz. Honestly, some people can cut it, and some can't, and I just couldn't. I was overanalyzing myself and my embouchure all the time and it was a vicious cycle. Whether I COULD HAVE made it or not, I had to step away from pursuing playing as a career and went into another adjacent music-related field.

Now, moving to a new career, teaching lessons part-time and playing for fun (and occasional remuneration) defines that my entire approach to the instrument and mindset are different. The Eastman has been a blessing in making it all easy.

Honest question... Is this based on your experience underneath the bell, or is it based on feedback that you're getting from others at a distance, or by listening to yourself and recordings with an ensemble?

All three! The sound is a little different under the bell but I am very pleased with the way it blends with my groups. And my wife (unbiased audience, right?) agrees. I've gotten a lot of compliments on the sound (not just from my wife!).

I don't know if I would play it in a quintet, but in my small brass ensemble I mentioned (usually an octet), it works very well with a Sellmansberger Imperial, and I use a Symphony in larger groups. Works awesome.

Thanks for reading. This forum has helped bring back my latent love of playing music, and it's been a lot of fun over the past year getting back up to speed.

Blake

[bloke]

With apologies for pretending that my 1960's similarly-size Holton B-flat is the same model as your Eastman C...

I've used it in quite a few quintet situations.

I look through the stuff programmed, and decide whether to bring this new-ISH to me Holton or my F tuba.
If hired to play at a commencement (where virtually all the music has been compacted from band/orchestral to five parts) I might well use the Miraphone 98, but that would probably be the only type of quintet playing that I would do with a very large instrument.

[arpthark]

9 months later...

I am getting compliments left and right on the sound of this thing from folks in my band, and I think it's just the horn making everything so, so easy.

One week, I brought my Besson Eb to rehearsal on a lark, and the next week I brought the Eastman back. My sectionmate: "I missed this one!"

===

Added some additional water keys on the #3 and #4 circuits to help with drainage -- I hate dumping slides.

Using a couple blokepieces on it, but the plain old Symphony works best. Even though this is ostensibly a Euro shank tuba, the feel of the American shank Symphony is a bit better than the Euro shank. Will plug in an Imperial if I am playing with a smaller group. I'm not hellaciously picky about mouthpieces, though.

There is a bit of acid bleed in the lacquer at some solder joints near a couple ferrules and one spot near a piston knuckle. Slides move like butter, valves have been trouble-free.

I've dialed in the few intonation quirks and manage them pretty well.

===

I think I've decided to play the Gregson with my band on this tuba in the fall instead of the Besson Eb.

[tubanh84]

I believe this is the horn I played in Dillon when I was there several months ago. I'm really glad it's working out.

The lasting impression I have from that horn is from when I ran through the end of Bruckner 7 on it. The 32nd notes (and the notes following them, which is a real trick!) popped in a way that I've never experienced before. Immediate, fast, in tune, and centered. It was intoxicating.

[b.williams]

9 months later...

I am getting compliments left and right on the sound of this thing from folks in my band, and I think it's just the horn making everything so, so easy.

One week, I brought my Besson Eb to rehearsal on a lark, and the next week I brought the Eastman back. My sectionmate: "I missed this one!"

===

Added some additional water keys on the #3 and #4 circuits to help with drainage -- I hate dumping slides.

Using a couple blokepieces on it, but the plain old Symphony works best. Even though this is ostensibly a Euro shank tuba, the feel of the American shank Symphony is a bit better than the Euro shank. Will plug in an Imperial if I am playing with a smaller group. I'm not hellaciously picky about mouthpieces, though.

There is a bit of acid bleed in the lacquer at some solder joints near a couple ferrules and one spot near a piston knuckle. Slides move like butter, valves have been trouble-free.

I've dialed in the few intonation quirks and manage them pretty well.

===

I think I've decided to play the Gregson with my band on this tuba in the fall instead of the Besson Eb.

What band is that?

[bloke]

Blake is a good player. Good players make tubas sound good, regardless of the tuba, as long as the tuba is pretty good. Blake is going to get compliments on his playing regardless.

[arpthark]

9 months later...

I am getting compliments left and right on the sound of this thing from folks in my band, and I think it's just the horn making everything so, so easy.

One week, I brought my Besson Eb to rehearsal on a lark, and the next week I brought the Eastman back. My sectionmate: "I missed this one!"

===

Added some additional water keys on the #3 and #4 circuits to help with drainage -- I hate dumping slides.

Using a couple blokepieces on it, but the plain old Symphony works best. Even though this is ostensibly a Euro shank tuba, the feel of the American shank Symphony is a bit better than the Euro shank. Will plug in an Imperial if I am playing with a smaller group. I'm not hellaciously picky about mouthpieces, though.

There is a bit of acid bleed in the lacquer at some solder joints near a couple ferrules and one spot near a piston knuckle. Slides move like butter, valves have been trouble-free.

I've dialed in the few intonation quirks and manage them pretty well.

===

I think I've decided to play the Gregson with my band on this tuba in the fall instead of the Besson Eb.

What band is that?

Noank-Mystic Community Band out of Mystic, CT. Awesome group. Our director is the asst. conductor of the Coast Guard Band.