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Greetings!

I have a question about silver plating an instrument. How thick is the current silver plating average? I understand that if a too thin plating may dissapear faster, but If too thick, appart for beign more durable,does It may change the feeling, response, sound etc?

Thank you for taking your time to discuss!

Be very well!
Jose

You might find some useful info here - they are the premier platers of musical instruments in the US -

http://www.andersonsilverplating.com/

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:31 pm You might find some useful info here - they are the premier platers of musical instruments in the US -

http://www.andersonsilverplating.com/

Appreciated!

joshealejo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:18 pm Greetings!

I have a question about silver plating an instrument. How thick is the current silver plating average? I understand that if a too thin plating may dissapear faster, but If too thick, appart for beign more durable,does It may change the feeling, response, sound etc?

Thank you for taking your time to discuss!

Be very well!
Jose

I can say whatever "plating" you decide on whether it be Silver or Nickel or...the more layers and thicker it is the less the horn resonates. I'd been looking for a clear silver horn for awhile and finally found one. Satin looks nice, it definitely deadens the sound. It's been discussed ad nausea on the old TN site and maybe the archive still exists somewhere.

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:19 pm

joshealejo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:18 pm Greetings!

I have a question about silver plating an instrument. How thick is the current silver plating average? I understand that if a too thin plating may dissapear faster, but If too thick, appart for beign more durable,does It may change the feeling, response, sound etc?

Thank you for taking your time to discuss!

Be very well!
Jose

I can say whatever "plating" you decide on whether it be Silver or Nickel or...the more layers and thicker it is the less the horn resonates. I'd been looking for a clear silver horn for awhile and finally found one. Satin looks nice, it definitely deadens the sound. It's been discussed ad nausea on the old TN site and maybe the archive still exists somewhere.

Thank you for your comment! The same will apply with laqcer and satin laqcuer?

Thank you!
Jose

Thank you for your comment! The same will apply with laqcer and satin laqcuer?

Lacquer isn't a "plating" as far as I know, it's just a spray and I don't think it would affect resonance even spraying it on heavily. (Think the old King Eastlake Orange that can't be penetrated by 88mm shells ).

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:52 pm

Thank you for your comment! The same will apply with laqcer and satin laqcuer?

Lacquer isn't a "plating" as far as I know, it's just a spray and I don't think it would affect resonance even spraying it on heavily. (Think the old King Eastlake Orange that can't be penetrated by 88mm shells ).

True! 88mm holly!!!

Which tuba do you want plated?

I've heard that the way long ago method was to plate the inside AND outside of the tuba. Or in more recent times, that's the premium version of playing.

Is that true? No clue! And no clue to the answers to your questions. But I have little interest, personally, to replate an instrument, or plate something that was originally lacquered. The prep work alone just removes too much metal and adds too many variables.

That said... I don't believe my Alex was originally silver plated at at the factory.

Plating, simply, follows the electrical current.

Electricity tends to be polar (ie. "polarity") so plating tends to be thicker on the ends of things.

Electricity tends to flow more over the exterior surfaces of things...so more silver tends to bond more to exterior surfaces.

When you see factory instruments with silver plating and beautiful free-of-silver casings and outside slide inner surfaces, that's because the factory went back - AFTER the plating was done - and removed the silver from those surfaces.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:19 pm Which tuba do you want plated?

I've heard that the way long ago method was to plate the inside AND outside of the tuba. Or in more recent times, that's the premium version of playing.

Is that true? No clue! And no clue to the answers to your questions. But I have little interest, personally, to replate an instrument, or plate something that was originally lacquered. The prep work alone just removes too much metal and adds too many variables.

That said... I don't believe my Alex was originally silver plated at at the factory.

I guess that if you would sand blast or scratch the surface (for a frosted- mate finish), instead of polishing (for a bright finish) then minimun (or none?) of the material will be removed (?)

This may sound like crazzy but I have a tuba that have all the 100% laqcuer (like new condition) but I would like to have another finish on It. Would It be too risky?

joshealejo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:48 pm I guess that if you would sand blast or scratch the surface (for a frosted- mate finish), instead of polishing (for a bright finish) then minimun (or none?) of the material will be removed (?)

This may sound like crazzy but I have a tuba that have all the 100% laqcuer (like new condition) but I would like to have another finish on It. Would It be too risky?

The tech would use bead blasting- I believe it is glass beading- to make the satin finish. If your horn presently is lacquer, it would need to be stripped separately.

Chemically removing lacquer and color buffing removes negligible metal. I chose the word,‘negligible’, because it means negligible.

Expertly done glass bead blasting - when an instrument is badly scratched - removes the least possible amount of metal, when the strategy is to hide scratches from view...and - as part of 1/1000th of an inch of silver is (usually - with this finish) added back - the loss of material is even less.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:48 pm Chemically removing lacquer and color buffing removes negligible metal. I chose the word,‘negligible’, because it means negligible.

Expertly done glass bead blasting - when an instrument is badly scratched - removes the least possible amount of metal, when the strategy is to hide scratches from view...and - as part of 1/1000th of an inch of silver is (usually - with this finish) added back - the loss of material is even less.

Is color buffing after stripping the lacquer needed even if a bead blast is going to be applied (a a no shinny finish is needed)?

If a lacquer is applied instead of silver plating. is there going to be any variation in the response, sound, etc. due the "negligible" reduce of material?

Finally, is there any risk in doing this satin lacquer or silver to a like new instrument? (besides It maybe being foolish decision as the instrument looks like new )

Thank you a lot for the comments above!

joshealejo wrote:Is color buffing after stripping the lacquer needed even if a bead blast is going to be applied (a a no shinny finish is needed)?

nope, other than (traditionally...) the bell interior, slides, caps, waterkeys, any offsets/engraving..., which would all need to be color-buffed and then protected from being bead-blasted

If a lacquer is applied instead of silver plating. is there going to be any variation in the response, sound, etc. due the "negligible" reduce of material?

dude...

Finally, is there any risk in doing this satin lacquer or silver to a like new instrument? (besides It maybe being foolish decision as the instrument looks like new )

only the always-present risk of someone f-ing up you stuff, while they're working on it...

joshealejo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:20 am

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:48 pm Chemically removing lacquer and color buffing removes negligible metal. I chose the word,‘negligible’, because it means negligible.

Expertly done glass bead blasting - when an instrument is badly scratched - removes the least possible amount of metal, when the strategy is to hide scratches from view...and - as part of 1/1000th of an inch of silver is (usually - with this finish) added back - the loss of material is even less.

Is color buffing after stripping the lacquer needed even if a bead blast is going to be applied (a a no shinny finish is needed)?

If a lacquer is applied instead of silver plating. is there going to be any variation in the response, sound, etc. due the "negligible" reduce of material?

Finally, is there any risk in doing this satin lacquer or silver to a like new instrument? (besides It maybe being foolish decision as the instrument looks like new )

Thank you a lot for the comments above!

Well let's establish what the instrument IS you are trying to do this with first..second, raw brass will resonate the most but Silver always looks nice. If it's new, why not sell it and just buy the same model in Silver if possible?

Some seem to view tubas as percussion instruments - based on the way they talk about their sound production.

For that matter, neither are their players‘ lips, though many-many-many seem to believe otherwise.

whatev’...

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:46 am Some seem to view tubas as percussion instruments - based on the way they talk about their sound production.

For that matter, neither are their players‘ lips, though many-many-many seem to believe otherwise.

whatev’...

They don't resonate either, they are lifeless automatons used as props to make the image of the band look better. Kind of a like a smoke and mirror show when all it really is is our lips flapping (pun intendid). Heck we don't even need mouthpieces to buzz and make music for an audience, silly tubas.

vessels for vibrating columns of air...
...and yes, some tubas do seem to only be "up there" for looks, as their operators don't seem to vibrate their columns of air - contained within - very much.

btw...I was fond of my high school's very old King 1240 (I even removed dents with a huge cooking spoon, smoothed it's bell with my Mom's rolling pin, and then stripped the lacquer from and re-lacquered its bell - with hardware store clear lacquer and a brush), even though the pistons were so worn and loose in their casings that it was a bit of a chore to get its air column to vibrate as much as I would have liked.

As nebulous as was that old tuba, I played Berlioz' Rákóczy March, Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite, and Stravinsky's Le Baiser de la fée Divertimento on that thing, as well as a wind-band concert conducted by Arnald Gabriel.

Nice, not-leaky four-valve ones are amazing tubas.

So metal doesn't vibrate or resonate it's all your lips and air column ? Then by golly, I'm going down to Home Depot right now and buying a large metal trashcan and cashing in on my horns right away, what a waste of engineering. I never knew that.

Believe as you will...
Everyone nurses their own belief systems about most everything.
We live in a country that is so incredibly prosperous that many people are able to manage shelter, food, clothing, and luxuries, while embracing all sorts of misconceptions.
Someone who believes sideways theories about how they make their music - yet they make it quite well regardless of those misconceptions - is going to be asked by others to play music with them, and regardless of how they believe they are accomplishing it.

...speaking of which...
Your bass and mine are of similar vintage. I believe my Jazz bass is a '73, and is black. Being black, it has a dark tone.