Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
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- arpthark
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Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
Seen here: https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... ronzegold/
Anybody played it?
Are other Chinese tuba importers offering this model?
Anybody played it?
Are other Chinese tuba importers offering this model?
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
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- Mary Ann
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
Note that that vendor does not have a means of return, only exchange, at your expense.
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- bone-a-phone (Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:23 am)
- arpthark
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
Indeed, thanks and good info. I'm aware of this policy, which is why I'd be interested in seeing if any of the other US importers carried it and if anyone's given it a whirl. But Laabs is the only place I'm seeing it right now.
Blake
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
Mack Brass has something similar, but it has 5 rotaries, and a little more expensive. I'd rather deal with Tom than Laabs any day of the week.
https://mackbrass.com/tu540-f-tuba
https://mackbrass.com/tu540-f-tuba
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- the elephant (Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:23 pm)
Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
My tuba buying experience with Laabs was, in retrospect, unacceptable. I had some concerns about my tuba purchased there and none of them were ever addressed, and they declined to exchange my instrument for another. The one person I needed to talk to about warranty adjustments was never available, and never returned my phone calls.
Caveat emptor.
Caveat emptor.
- bloke
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
LOL...
textbook freak jury posts:
no answers to your specific question
bloke "yeah...me...?? guilty as charged"
textbook freak jury posts:
no answers to your specific question
bloke "yeah...me...?? guilty as charged"
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- arpthark (Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:27 pm) • WC8KCY (Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:04 pm) • Casca Grossa (Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:06 pm)
- Mary Ann
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
Even the best rotary F has, by virtue of how it has to be constructed, "that problem." The piston ones, for the same reasons, apparently do not. I understand why you would want a piston one. I played an early 45SLP and frankly it was not as good, except for the accessibility of "that range," as my MW 182. And it was a piston tuba.
Of course we can get back into the dropped mouthpiece dent and resultant fix of the nodes, but no maker has seemed even vaguely interested in applying that fix to a standard instrument. I mean, who wants a brand new shiny tuba with a dent in it, even if it does make it suddenly playable? Seems like someone could just weld an appropriately shaped piece of metal on the INSIDE at that spot and have the perfect rotary F tuba. Why am I the only one who talks about this?
Of course we can get back into the dropped mouthpiece dent and resultant fix of the nodes, but no maker has seemed even vaguely interested in applying that fix to a standard instrument. I mean, who wants a brand new shiny tuba with a dent in it, even if it does make it suddenly playable? Seems like someone could just weld an appropriately shaped piece of metal on the INSIDE at that spot and have the perfect rotary F tuba. Why am I the only one who talks about this?
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- the elephant (Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:32 pm)
Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
If you could get the model number from Laabs for the tuba in question--it's not on their website but is likely printed all over the shipping box it came in--chances are it's the same as the JinBao model number. You could then do some Googling to find other retailers selling the same instrument, if there are any.
In the case of my 520, there wasn't--and isn't--anyone else selling them in the USA.
Were I ever to buy another instrument from them, I'd only do so in person, being careful to only walk out of the store with an instrument without issues, and with the assumption that it's an as-is/where-is purchase.
In the case of my 520, there wasn't--and isn't--anyone else selling them in the USA.
Were I ever to buy another instrument from them, I'd only do so in person, being careful to only walk out of the store with an instrument without issues, and with the assumption that it's an as-is/where-is purchase.
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
.
Last edited by YorkNumber3.0 on Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
The valve section sure looks a lot like that of the John Packer JP379B. The bell is substantially different, however.
- ronr
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
The JP379B is a rotary instrument
2013 J Packer 379 Bbb
1905 York Helicon
1960 Reynolds Contempora Sousaphone
2022 Wessex fiberglass sousaphone
1905 York Helicon
1960 Reynolds Contempora Sousaphone
2022 Wessex fiberglass sousaphone
Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
I should have referred to the JP379F. My apologies.
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
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John Packer 374LT
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
I think this is a copy of the newer MR. P f tuba, which is a good instrument.
Doug Black
Assistant Professor of Music, Alabama A&M University
Eastman Tuba Artist
Assistant Professor of Music, Alabama A&M University
Eastman Tuba Artist
Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
To Arpthark's question dated January 6th, 2023:
I have bought a similar looking FF tuba from Erwin Schmid Musikhaus at Neubrunn, Germany. It is a perfect look-alike of the Schiller Elite FF piston tuba. I think it is not a 100% copy of the B&S MRP, but at least a very good imitation (an "almost"-copy) . The only striking difference I can see is the direction of the 5th valve (rotary).
Price was about the same as the Schiller (a bit less than Euro 3000 with case). Herr Schmid says, that he buys the components from China and assembles it himself. I cannot check, whether that is true or not. So, I am not sure, whether Herr Schmid improved the quality of the instrument or changed some part of it. (Probably not). Anyway, before buying I had a professional (friend) testplaying it and he recommended it to me without hesitation.
I am playing it for a few months now and I am very satisfied. After arrival of the instrument I was amazed, how much I had to pull all slides, except 2nd and 5th valve. But after adjusting slides the intonation was very good. Sound is attractive (tends somewhat more to the dark than to the bright side), rather even through the registers. Low register is easy and great. High register is more demanding, as with a lot of F-tubas. No wonder, it really is a big F-tuba!!
Condition of the valves is very good, even after a few months of intensive use (and...caps came with perfect thread!!! Nice surprise!!!). I have handlapped the slides myself again, because at delivery they were not moving easily enough for me.
The only modifications I had made are: replacement of the adjustable thumb ring (opening of the original was too small for me). And (not necessary, came more or less coincidentally) I was offered the opportunity to have done a cryogenic treatment of the tuba, which had a positive effect on the eveness of sound and the flexibility.
Thomann is offering a model called Phoenix, which looks a lot like the Schmid/Schiller. I did not have the opportunity to play that. But the Thomann is about 10 cm less tall than the Schmid/Schiller (88 vs 98 cm), has a bell of 44 cm whereas the Schmid/Schiller has a 42 cm bell, and is a bit lighter in weight. Price over here is about 1000 Euro more.
I only can conclude, that this is by far the cheapest F tuba, I have ever played, and that the quality matches all my needs (in quintet, brass ensemble, symphony orchestra).
Hope this information will be useful to someone....
Best,
Hubert
The Netherlands
I have bought a similar looking FF tuba from Erwin Schmid Musikhaus at Neubrunn, Germany. It is a perfect look-alike of the Schiller Elite FF piston tuba. I think it is not a 100% copy of the B&S MRP, but at least a very good imitation (an "almost"-copy) . The only striking difference I can see is the direction of the 5th valve (rotary).
Price was about the same as the Schiller (a bit less than Euro 3000 with case). Herr Schmid says, that he buys the components from China and assembles it himself. I cannot check, whether that is true or not. So, I am not sure, whether Herr Schmid improved the quality of the instrument or changed some part of it. (Probably not). Anyway, before buying I had a professional (friend) testplaying it and he recommended it to me without hesitation.
I am playing it for a few months now and I am very satisfied. After arrival of the instrument I was amazed, how much I had to pull all slides, except 2nd and 5th valve. But after adjusting slides the intonation was very good. Sound is attractive (tends somewhat more to the dark than to the bright side), rather even through the registers. Low register is easy and great. High register is more demanding, as with a lot of F-tubas. No wonder, it really is a big F-tuba!!
Condition of the valves is very good, even after a few months of intensive use (and...caps came with perfect thread!!! Nice surprise!!!). I have handlapped the slides myself again, because at delivery they were not moving easily enough for me.
The only modifications I had made are: replacement of the adjustable thumb ring (opening of the original was too small for me). And (not necessary, came more or less coincidentally) I was offered the opportunity to have done a cryogenic treatment of the tuba, which had a positive effect on the eveness of sound and the flexibility.
Thomann is offering a model called Phoenix, which looks a lot like the Schmid/Schiller. I did not have the opportunity to play that. But the Thomann is about 10 cm less tall than the Schmid/Schiller (88 vs 98 cm), has a bell of 44 cm whereas the Schmid/Schiller has a 42 cm bell, and is a bit lighter in weight. Price over here is about 1000 Euro more.
I only can conclude, that this is by far the cheapest F tuba, I have ever played, and that the quality matches all my needs (in quintet, brass ensemble, symphony orchestra).
Hope this information will be useful to someone....
Best,
Hubert
The Netherlands
Last edited by hubert on Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
But not vociferous throughout the subsonic range?
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- Casca Grossa (Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:06 pm)
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Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy
No, not vociferous. Sound stays "healthy" and does not break up easily in that register.
Addition: I use a Windhager (WHF) mouthpiece (rim JW6, cup C/F6 and shaft E6 = = = inner diameter 32,0 mm, bowl shaped deep cup (44,5 mm), bore 8,4 mm, concave backbore).
Hubert
Addition: I use a Windhager (WHF) mouthpiece (rim JW6, cup C/F6 and shaft E6 = = = inner diameter 32,0 mm, bowl shaped deep cup (44,5 mm), bore 8,4 mm, concave backbore).
Hubert