Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Tubas, euphoniums, mouthpieces, and anything music-related.
Forum rules
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
User avatar
arpthark
Posts: 3906
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
Location: Southeastern Connecticut
Has thanked: 953 times
Been thanked: 1068 times
Contact:

Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by arpthark »

Seen here: https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... ronzegold/

Anybody played it?

Are other Chinese tuba importers offering this model?


User avatar
Mary Ann
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:24 am
Has thanked: 517 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by Mary Ann »

Note that that vendor does not have a means of return, only exchange, at your expense.
These users thanked the author Mary Ann for the post:
bone-a-phone (Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:23 am)
User avatar
arpthark
Posts: 3906
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
Location: Southeastern Connecticut
Has thanked: 953 times
Been thanked: 1068 times
Contact:

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by arpthark »

Mary Ann wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:18 am Note that that vendor does not have a means of return, only exchange, at your expense.
Indeed, thanks and good info. I'm aware of this policy, which is why I'd be interested in seeing if any of the other US importers carried it and if anyone's given it a whirl. But Laabs is the only place I'm seeing it right now.
bone-a-phone
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:03 am
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by bone-a-phone »

Mack Brass has something similar, but it has 5 rotaries, and a little more expensive. I'd rather deal with Tom than Laabs any day of the week.
https://mackbrass.com/tu540-f-tuba
These users thanked the author bone-a-phone for the post:
the elephant (Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:23 pm)
WC8KCY
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:07 am
Has thanked: 250 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by WC8KCY »

My tuba buying experience with Laabs was, in retrospect, unacceptable. I had some concerns about my tuba purchased there and none of them were ever addressed, and they declined to exchange my instrument for another. The one person I needed to talk to about warranty adjustments was never available, and never returned my phone calls.

Caveat emptor.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 19290
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3841 times
Been thanked: 4088 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by bloke »

LOL...

textbook freak jury posts:
no answers to your specific question

bloke "yeah...me...?? guilty as charged" :laugh:
These users thanked the author bloke for the post (total 3):
arpthark (Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:27 pm) • WC8KCY (Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:04 pm) • Casca Grossa (Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:06 pm)
User avatar
bort2.0
Posts: 5253
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:13 am
Location: Minneapolis
Has thanked: 336 times
Been thanked: 999 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by bort2.0 »

Was the piston pt-10 even that good of a tuba to begin with? I mean you can put those big piston valves on anything but... :huh:
User avatar
Mary Ann
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:24 am
Has thanked: 517 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by Mary Ann »

Even the best rotary F has, by virtue of how it has to be constructed, "that problem." The piston ones, for the same reasons, apparently do not. I understand why you would want a piston one. I played an early 45SLP and frankly it was not as good, except for the accessibility of "that range," as my MW 182. And it was a piston tuba.

Of course we can get back into the dropped mouthpiece dent and resultant fix of the nodes, but no maker has seemed even vaguely interested in applying that fix to a standard instrument. I mean, who wants a brand new shiny tuba with a dent in it, even if it does make it suddenly playable? Seems like someone could just weld an appropriately shaped piece of metal on the INSIDE at that spot and have the perfect rotary F tuba. Why am I the only one who talks about this?
These users thanked the author Mary Ann for the post:
the elephant (Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:32 pm)
WC8KCY
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:07 am
Has thanked: 250 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by WC8KCY »

If you could get the model number from Laabs for the tuba in question--it's not on their website but is likely printed all over the shipping box it came in--chances are it's the same as the JinBao model number. You could then do some Googling to find other retailers selling the same instrument, if there are any.

In the case of my 520, there wasn't--and isn't--anyone else selling them in the USA.

Were I ever to buy another instrument from them, I'd only do so in person, being careful to only walk out of the store with an instrument without issues, and with the assumption that it's an as-is/where-is purchase.
YorkNumber3.0
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by YorkNumber3.0 »

.
Last edited by YorkNumber3.0 on Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WC8KCY
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:07 am
Has thanked: 250 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by WC8KCY »

YorkNumber3 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:33 pm Is this possibly a JinBaoian impression of a “MRP” F. :tuba:
The valve section sure looks a lot like that of the John Packer JP379B. The bell is substantially different, however.
User avatar
LargeTuba
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:08 am
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 136 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by LargeTuba »

This is the Chinese copy of a Mrp-F tuba.

I think bloke sold a upgraded version of this a couple years ago?
Pt-6P, Holton 345 CC, 45slp
User avatar
ronr
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:13 am
Location: North of Bort2.0, south of MN_Tim
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by ronr »

WC8KCY wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:49 pm
YorkNumber3 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:33 pm Is this possibly a JinBaoian impression of a “MRP” F. :tuba:
The valve section sure looks a lot like that of the John Packer JP379B. The bell is substantially different, however.
The JP379B is a rotary instrument
2013 J Packer 379 Bbb
1905 York Helicon
1960 Reynolds Contempora Sousaphone
2022 Wessex fiberglass sousaphone
WC8KCY
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:07 am
Has thanked: 250 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by WC8KCY »

ronr wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:51 pm
WC8KCY wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:49 pm
YorkNumber3 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:33 pm Is this possibly a JinBaoian impression of a “MRP” F. :tuba:
The valve section sure looks a lot like that of the John Packer JP379B. The bell is substantially different, however.
The JP379B is a rotary instrument
I should have referred to the JP379F. My apologies.
iMav
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:01 am
Location: Valley City, North Dakota, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by iMav »

Euphoniums
Sterling Virtuoso IV
John Packer 374LT
John Packer 274L
S.E.Shires Q41s

Larry Herzog Jr.
Twitter: iMav
Facebook: iMav
Email: me@imav.org
Founder of geekhack.org

Linktree: iMav

All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server
User avatar
Doug
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:52 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by Doug »

bort2.0 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:50 pm Was the piston pt-10 even that good of a tuba to begin with? I mean you can put those big piston valves on anything but... :huh:
I think this is a copy of the newer MR. P f tuba, which is a good instrument.
These users thanked the author Doug for the post:
bort2.0 (Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:40 am)
Doug Black
Assistant Professor of Music, Alabama A&M University
Eastman Tuba Artist
cthuba
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by cthuba »

Anyone play the 6 valve “Frankfurt” tuba?
hubert
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:32 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by hubert »

To Arpthark's question dated January 6th, 2023:

I have bought a similar looking FF tuba from Erwin Schmid Musikhaus at Neubrunn, Germany. It is a perfect look-alike of the Schiller Elite FF piston tuba. I think it is not a 100% copy of the B&S MRP, but at least a very good imitation (an "almost"-copy) . The only striking difference I can see is the direction of the 5th valve (rotary).
Price was about the same as the Schiller (a bit less than Euro 3000 with case). Herr Schmid says, that he buys the components from China and assembles it himself. I cannot check, whether that is true or not. So, I am not sure, whether Herr Schmid improved the quality of the instrument or changed some part of it. (Probably not). Anyway, before buying I had a professional (friend) testplaying it and he recommended it to me without hesitation.

I am playing it for a few months now and I am very satisfied. After arrival of the instrument I was amazed, how much I had to pull all slides, except 2nd and 5th valve. But after adjusting slides the intonation was very good. Sound is attractive (tends somewhat more to the dark than to the bright side), rather even through the registers. Low register is easy and great. High register is more demanding, as with a lot of F-tubas. No wonder, it really is a big F-tuba!!
Condition of the valves is very good, even after a few months of intensive use (and...caps came with perfect thread!!! Nice surprise!!!). I have handlapped the slides myself again, because at delivery they were not moving easily enough for me.
The only modifications I had made are: replacement of the adjustable thumb ring (opening of the original was too small for me). And (not necessary, came more or less coincidentally) I was offered the opportunity to have done a cryogenic treatment of the tuba, which had a positive effect on the eveness of sound and the flexibility.

Thomann is offering a model called Phoenix, which looks a lot like the Schmid/Schiller. I did not have the opportunity to play that. But the Thomann is about 10 cm less tall than the Schmid/Schiller (88 vs 98 cm), has a bell of 44 cm whereas the Schmid/Schiller has a 42 cm bell, and is a bit lighter in weight. Price over here is about 1000 Euro more.

I only can conclude, that this is by far the cheapest F tuba, I have ever played, and that the quality matches all my needs (in quintet, brass ensemble, symphony orchestra).
Hope this information will be useful to someone....
Best,
Hubert
The Netherlands
Last edited by hubert on Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Three Valves
Posts: 4604
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
Has thanked: 812 times
Been thanked: 500 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by Three Valves »

hubert wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:04 am Low register is fantastic.
But not vociferous throughout the subsonic range? :huh:

:tuba:
These users thanked the author Three Valves for the post:
Casca Grossa (Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:06 pm)
Thought Criminal
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
hubert
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:32 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Schiller/Laabs piston F PT-10P (?) copy

Post by hubert »

No, not vociferous. Sound stays "healthy" and does not break up easily in that register.
Addition: I use a Windhager (WHF) mouthpiece (rim JW6, cup C/F6 and shaft E6 = = = inner diameter 32,0 mm, bowl shaped deep cup (44,5 mm), bore 8,4 mm, concave backbore).
Hubert
Post Reply