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A gent drove up from south Texas with a really old B&S "Sanders" that that (I'm thinking) he bought new from that-place-that-had-Sanders-engraved-on-some-B&S-tubas.

I don't know anything about this tuba. It's fairly short, heavy, and the first rotor (or all of them??...I haven't measured the rest) is a 19mm bore rotor.

It's got the typical B&S mouthpipe config, whereby the mouthpipe zig-zags into the lower side port of the 5th rotor.

It also has the old-school roughly-two-whole-tones 5th slide (most of which is attached to the slide itself and is fished down behind the exit tubing from the subsequent rotors).

Not knowing anything (and based on the fact that the middle/upper G's and the top C are wildly sharp - compared to the general tuning, my guesses (???) are that the bugle might be an old B-flat design, the horizontal slide on the B-flat version was short-circuited via a vertical slide, and a short bell was fitted to the bottom bow...eh...??

VOILA !!! C tuba (with issues).

The entire instrument is also quite high pitched, and requires an epic pull for A=440.

I doubt that I'll be able to do anything about the G's and the C (luckily, neither the F-sharps nor the B-natural are particularly bad...I'm pretty sure the G's will have to be played with 4, and the top C will be played with 1 with a pull), but (also taking into account that the man's a tall Texan) I'm "seeing about" lengthening it from the mouthpipe end (as lengthening the main slide would define the slide hitting the chair seat, and raising up the valveset would require moving a dozen braces plus re-bending the o.e.m. mouthpipe around a fatter portion of the bell (anyway).

I put in an hour before supper on this...(Yes, I've been procrastinating...you know: dreaded stuff, etc.)

I'm sorta proud that it
- misses all of the obstacles
- doesn't look terribly goofy when dry-mounted
- after a considerable about of work with a very small dent hammer and rounding rings, most of the severely curved areas are just about round

I'm going to play fatbastard (Miraphone 98) to calm down, and work on next month's concert's fifteen 4th trombone parts (hybrid jazz band/symphony orchestra Valentine pops concert), think about this mouthpipe in the back of my mind, hit the sack, and then see about getting this mouthpipe looking better (and perhaps even mounting it) tomorrow.

Other than that, the guy would like dents removed, the o.e.m. linkage tightened up, and (probably) some interior cleaning. Per typical with communist East German B&S lacquer, most of it is gone, so I hate to do a chem-clean (removing four decades of patina), and might just have to do some inefficient/slow manual rotor casings cleaning job.

The gent told me he would pay whatever it took and whatever I think it needs, but I'm not one to take advantage to that type of situation (and I believe most everyone knows that).

Anyway...Please send good karma re: this mouthpipe. Tomorrow, I'm going to do some annealing, and will temporarily brace and burnish the insides of the steep curves. I believe I shall have added c. 3+" to the instrument via this 'pipe.

Can you post a photo of the tuba itself? Sounds like the one I played in college, which was an early PT-3.

Nice playing tuba, and had a moderate dent in the leadpipe and not-too-gnarly intonation issues. Never thought it could have been a magic dent, but perhaps...?

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:20 pm Can you post a photo of the tuba itself? Sounds like the one I played in college, which was an early PT-3.

Nice playing tuba, and had a moderate dent in the leadpipe and not-too-gnarly intonation issues. Never thought it could have been a magic dent, but perhaps...?

ok...tomorrow...unless I go back out to see if I remembered to turn off the heat and lock the door.

"magic dent"...Maybe your G's and C weren't as horrible, because yours was silver...(??)

...or maybe, you didn't notice.

OK...
The heat was off and the door was locked.

Thanks! Yep, I think that's the same thing. Long time ago and I don't remember all the playing quirks and stuff of it. It got me through college, and I kept playing after college, so it couldn't have been all that bad

Tuning quirks are even funkier than 4/4 Hb...

Hey, Mack, those are ROLLS ROYCE intonation quirks; THE BEST. Be more respectful of what have always been the greatest tubas ever created. (I hated that store for all their lousy propaganda and used car salesman tactics. But what do I know? I'm an idiot.)


























By the way, I will second the motion that this is a PT-3.

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:10 pm
I'm going to play fatbastard (Miraphone 98) to calm down

^^^


I think that's a great idea and I'm glad you are enjoying making music for the sake of it.

I'm sort of proud that I can't recognize/identify a pt2/3/4

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:23 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:20 pm Can you post a photo of the tuba itself? Sounds like the one I played in college, which was an early PT-3.

Nice playing tuba, and had a moderate dent in the leadpipe and not-too-gnarly intonation issues. Never thought it could have been a magic dent, but perhaps...?

ok...tomorrow...unless I go back out to see if I remembered to turn off the heat and lock the door.

"magic dent"...Maybe your G's and C weren't as horrible, because yours was silver...(??)

...or maybe, you didn't notice.

It wasn't silver. @bort2.0 and I have disagreed over this particular horn (there were 2) for years. I thought it was wildly out of tune for bottom line G and the octave above it. It was new when I was there so *maybe* it did acquire a magic dent which changed it... I thought its most useful purpose was sitting in a road to prevent a squirrel from being by a car.

Who - like me - wonders if this model was a B-flat with a shortened mouthpipe, main slide, and bell...??

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:51 pm Who - like me - wonders if this model was a B-flat with a shortened mouthpipe, main slide, and bell...??

I have an email chain with Bob Tucci somewhere about the genesis of the PT-3... But basically it's a CC tuba body with an F tuba bell.

@kingrob76 -- it was a long time ago, I'll admit that. Although, Toby Hanks said I sounded great on it, so....

I’m looking forward to seeing/hearing the results.

OK...

- c. 6'3" guy (ie. 'tall Texan)...was bent over (etc.) playing this thing
- lives in south Texas (HOT...no winter, to speak of)
- plays outdoors in the HEAT, often
- likely, indoors ac is never much cooler than 73°F. (correct, @Doc ?)
- tuba played SHARP, and with three PARTICULARLY sharp pitches (octave G's and top-of-staff C).

so, this:

Dry-fitting/testing/trimming this mouthpipe
- the tuba plays at c. A=441/2 (when my workroom is around 72° F.) with the main slide pushed all the way in.
- I can pull the main slide out at least enough to flatten the pitch by 30 c. (ref: "coping with 100° F. outdoor temps").
- For whatever reason (??), the upper G is now not nearly so bad as it previously was (with the other two pitches still pretty stinky, but - AT LEAST - "lower stinky" - with the rest of the tuba in the A=440 range, rather than the tuba in the A=444 range).

I've also tapered the receiver portion of the mouthpipe (original is euro) so as the taper is (similar to many modern-day instruments accommodating of either euro or standard shanks. (The mouthpiece in the picture is very slightly on the large side of "euro".)

...so what's left to do is to...
- Anneal the steeply curved portions of this mouthpipe (one-at-a-time).
- Cross-brace the steeply-curved portions of this mouthpipe (one-at-a-time).
- Run some greasy dent balls through those steeply-curved portions of this mouthpipe - one-at-a-time, tap them in, and burnish with them (magnet techniques, other techniques, etc.)
- File and sand out the remaining lumpity-lumpy-bumps from those two inside curves (as the wall thickness is remarkably thicker - now - than when straight, due to the bends).
- Buff out the sandpaper scratches, and install.

Once I get past this, I'll (hopefully) be past the "craftsman" part of this job, and back into the (much more comfortable) "repair-guy" wheelhouse, which allows me to devote some attention to listening to the radio (etc.) while I work.

Please say nice things about our set of marble monogrammed coasters. This coffee-stained one is the one that stays on my nightstand. It will be one more week before I get around to cleaning it, again.


Yeah...I'll need to make an over-part for the receiver. I'll probably imitate the B&S original one.

OK...
It didn't take but an hour to round/burnish the curved areas in the larger tubing, and the only places that will need any real filing/sanding are the remaining hammer marks on the larger diameter inside curves - where the metal is now considerably thicker than prior to being bent.

Everything misses everything (nothing hits the #1 slide nor the #5 slide, nor the #5 trigger), the instrument plays at 440 (at least, for me) with about a 1/4" - 3/8" pull in a low 70's F. temperature room, and with plenty of pull for warmer/hotter environment. One of the three stinky-sharp pitches (which ask for alternate valve combinations) isn't nearly as stinky as before, and the tubing - throughout, including in those tightly-curved areas - is remarkably close to round.

I'm sorta proud of this. It wasn't the easiest thing I've ever done, but - as a solution to a grouping of problems - perhaps it was the best one of three or four plans of action...(??)

Tomorrow, I'll slick it out, fabricate an over-part for the receiver end, install it (or I might just wait until I'm nearly done working on everything else to install it, in order to keep it out of harm's way).

I'm sorta proud of this, and relieved that this considerably involved rigamarole wasn't a "FAIL".

OK...
I'm pretty damn pleased with this, (it didn't take all that long to slick out, thankfully), and I hope the instrument's owner will be pleased as well.

I'm going to fabricate and install a fake communist-era B&S receiver-end overpart and then set this on a high shelf - out of harm's way - until I'm finished with all the other stuff on the (regular run-of-the-mill) repair checklist.

I discovered that I had bought (from someplace in Europe, maybe...??) some 16.25mm i.d. nickel-brass tubing which seems to be perfect to make a fake communist B&S overpart...and I'll need to find a little piece of brass tubing to go over the end of that, as well.


' time for lunch, a hot bath, and then: fab/install the overpart.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:16 pm OK...

- c. 6'3" guy (ie. 'tall Texan)...was bent over (etc.) playing this thing
- lives in south Texas (HOT...no winter, to speak of)
- plays outdoors in the HEAT, often
- likely, indoors ac is never much cooler than 73°F. (correct, @Doc ?)
- tuba played SHARP, and with three PARTICULARLY sharp pitches (octave G's and top-of-staff C).

Etc.

Correctamundo!

Maybe, this looks enough like a communist-era B&S receiver over-part...(??)

I'll pick at it a little bit more with file/sandpaper/buffing machine...

(I have a couple of TOTALLY trashed tuba mouthpieces around here...
If I can fine one of them, I can hold it in the vice, stick this mouthpipe over it,
and work on this over-part a little bit more...)

@Doc

If you care to grab these pics and send them to him, at least he'll know that his tuba has NOT been sentenced to PTRH

...no: NEITHER parathyroid hormone-related protein NOR platinum-rhodium, but Perpertual Tuba Repair Hell.

This is in a warm (c. 69° F.) room with the mouthpipe dry-fitted, that mouthpiece to which I am not at all accustomed (notice the unsteady sound on the top c), and with the main slide pulled probably 3/8".

I suspect I might possibly (??) be "favoring" a little bit (no feel for either this instrument nor this mouthpiece), but it seems to be a darn sight better than it was.

video (two versions of the link to the hosted mp4)





OK...(again) I'll solder this on when I'm finishing up (and NOT lacquer it - so that it eventually "matches" the appearance of the tuba).
time to clean rotors/casings, swedge linkage T-joints, tighten (pinch) the threads on the o.e.m. steel-socket-and-ball linkage, tension the anemic rotor springs (and I'm NOT one who prefers "strong" springs...so these are REALLY weak), remove dents, vent the first rotor, and - well... - wave a wand over it.

I STILL have NOT had that nice hot bath...and Mrs. bloke is nagging me about a partial polish and touch-up lacquer on a Yamaha alto she sold to a couple-of-hours-away school (more noise/filth, so no bath...yet). They also asked about a Fox 333 oboe...We're going to let them see a (just as nice-playing, and more elegant key work) John Packer JP181C oboe - for HALF the price.

EDIT: Saxophone prettied up, shop heater/lights turned off. 'time to bathe, eat, watch a fifty-year-old sitcom or two (or a good movie from the same era, if I can find one on broadcast TV) and pet my great cat.