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For the first time in many years, I played on an instrument that truly surprised me. I was able to play on both of the B&S International (795) CC instruments that Buffet Crampon brought to the show (they were actually the Tuba Exchange’s instruments but in the Buffet booth). This instrument can play. It played evenly across the whole instrument and had a very open bottom end. The valves were responsive and the horn was very comfortable to hold. Keep an Allen wrench in your gig bag for adjusting the thumb ring up and down. This is a fantastic instrument for college students and a great horn for playing for most engagements. The price tag is also very attractive at $8000ish. Not bad for a really good 4/4 horn. I was told by the rep at the booth that the design is from a discontinued Getzen model that was tweaked and updated for this current model.

What were ya’ll’s thoughts on any of the instruments you tried?

This is the Chinese built Nirschl 4/4 clone, no?

matt g wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:45 pm This is the Chinese built Nirschl 4/4 clone, no?

Not a Nirschl clone. But it is Manufactured in China.

Im curious about the rotor location. It looks like its right under the palm of your hand. Did it rub on your hand occasionally while playing? Some people move thier hands a lot when they play. I like the short linkage to the lever, seems like it would be more stable. Really cool though.

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Tuba1153 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:58 pm

matt g wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:45 pm This is the Chinese built Nirschl 4/4 clone, no?

Not a Nirschl clone. But it is Manufactured in China.

I bet the person you were talking to said Besson instead of Getzen. The 795 is the new version of the Besson 995 made in China, and the 995 was a Nirschl design.

I can never manage a conversation in the elephant room!

A B&S branded instrument made in China? That's a little confusing.

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:17 pm Im curious about the rotor location. It looks like its right under the palm of your hand. Did it rub on your hand occasionally while playing? Some people move thier hands a lot when they play. I like the short linkage to the lever, seems like it would be more stable. Really cool though.

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

No issue with the rotor. It was not a problem.

arpthark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:39 pm

Tuba1153 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:58 pm

matt g wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:45 pm This is the Chinese built Nirschl 4/4 clone, no?

Not a Nirschl clone. But it is Manufactured in China.

I bet the person you were talking to said Besson instead of Getzen. The 795 is the new version of the Besson 995 made in China, and the 995 was a Nirschl design.

I can never manage a conversation in the elephant room!

That is entirely possible. There was all kinds of thundering noises going on in the petting zoo.

If the US keeps sending fighter jets after surveillance er um Weather balloons, will the price go up from $8k?

"Asking for a friend"

Getzen G-50?

And "International" now means Chinese-made? So one of the big German brands is now openly selling Chinese-made tubas?

There was some indication of the B & S / China “International” connection at last year’s Midwest Clinic, where B & S showed tubas with “some” of the manufacturing being done in China. Some people say B & S “bought” the former Wiseman factory. This is a mistaken idea since the Chinese Government owns all manufacturing facilities. What they probably did was acquire the rights to have that factory produce products exclusively for them. This would be the same sort of deal Eastman made. Eastman says it is “their” factory. In a manner of speaking, that’s true, but they can’t own it, either.

I think the market pressure on European instrument manufacturers must be tremendous. They have to just be tired of Chinese manufacturers eating their lunch. Lower prices, increasing quality, and professional tuba player endorsers, most notably the stable of Eastman Artists. I guess they figure, if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. This trend really comes as no surprise to me. I speculated on a previous discussion that, if nothing changes and this trend remains intact, the day will inevitably come when all tubas in the world will be made in China, and you will be able to buy a “Miraclone” with “Miraphone” engraved on the bell. Crazy talk, you say? I submit that, if they want to stay in business, they would be crazy NOT to. Unless circumstances change, as I said.

It’s a copy of a Besson 995, which is a “tweaked” version of the Nirschl 4/4 CC. These are made by Wiseman, the company that made the great copy of a pt-6.

jtm wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:41 am A B&S branded instrument made in China? That's a little confusing.

Similar to the Besson International stuff which is also made in China and/or India.

Gerhardt again moving production from West Germany to East Germany as soon as he was given that plant during reunification, because wages were lower. So why is this so confusing?

I played that horn. I didn't find anything all that special about it. Fairly covered bland sound, and below average response in the low register. For a Chinese CC tuba, I'd rather get an eastman. (even the 632, which I may like more than the 832)

LeMark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:14 am I played that horn. I didn't find anything all that special about it. Fairly covered bland sound, and below average response in the low register. For a Chinese CC tuba, I'd rather get an eastman. (even the 632, which I may like more than the 832)

I recently got an 832. I preferred the slide layout and ergonomics of the 632, but the intonation on my 832 is basically point and shoot. I wasn't able to get second line Bb or B natural up to pitch on the 632 I played, even with the main and 1st/2nd slides all the way in. But it might've just been that particular horn.

the elephant wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:53 am Getzen G-50?

And "International" now means Chinese-made? So one of the big German brands is now openly selling Chinese-made tubas?

“International” sounds more cosmopolitan.

LeMark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:14 am I played that horn. I didn't find anything all that special about it. Fairly covered bland sound, and below average response in the low register. For a Chinese CC tuba, I'd rather get an eastman. (even the 632, which I may like more than the 832)

I think it very much depends on the mouthpiece that you use on that horn. That horn could blow and had a fantastic sound. The 6/4 horn at TMEA that grabbed my attention was a Cerveny 693 BBb that was not on display at the Tuba Exchange. If I was in the market for another BBb that horn might have gone with me. MASSIVE sound! Owner wanted $5000 for it, but in reality, I think he would only get $3000.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just didn't find anything special about it, and I've played a ton of different tubas in my life.

Of course I never thought the 995 was all that special either, so it's not a slam on chinese made goods

I played one of the very early 995's and thought it was excellent. I've never played a 995 or any of its variants since then that was as interesting or as good, although most I would deem as competent, so this would something I would try if I was in the market for a 4/4 piston CC tuba.