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I'm thinking of changing from my Mack 410 to a Piggy...the reasons being to get a darker, more colorful sound and to get a somewhat greater volume capability. I wonder if the Piggy is going to be an air hog. I have heard people say it plays easily and other folks say that it plays big "if pushed." I wonder if that means that I'm going to have to use a lot of air to get that bigger sound.

Does changing from the Mack to a "good" Piggy (one with decent intonation) sound like a good or a bad idea? Thanks for any input. The horn in question is one of the old Sanders Piggies...
Thanks,
royjohn

I play a Packer 379Bb which is a copy of a Cervany Piggy. Big sound, easy blow, small-ish horn. I have no trouble filling it with air, and putting out a lot of sound, with my 66-y.o. Lungs.

The packer is similar to the piggy in size only. It's closer to a 186 with a wrap that gives it a shorter height. I own one, and owned a piggy for 20 years. the packer is good, but it's no piggy

the piggy is an 835 bore, and yes, it's an air hog, but not as much as my 601. what more, I paired it with a bach 7 megatone that had a larger throat, in order to not make it seem too bright

I've got news for you. the 16 inch bell of the piggy isn't going to provide any darker sound than what you already have. Different? sure, and they are a blast to play if you get a good one, but the 410 is a very good copy of a very good tuba. I'm not sure it would be that much of an upgrade for you

I am an avowed Piggy fan, but I have a suspicion that some of the things that players say about Pigs has to do with the bell being so short and close to the ear. Out in the hall, it may not be as big of a difference.

I owned a 410 and a Piggy at the same time. Despite the large bore I found the Piggy pretty easy to play. The low range was more responsive and less tight than the 410. Intonation was more challenging, obviously. I preferred the Pig and should've kept it.

I am a little confused by the comment "darker and more colorful," because I view those as opposite characteristics in sound quality, but everyone has different definitions about what those words mean in relation to tuba tone. I thought the Piggy sounded a little "rougher" than the 410, but again, bell proximity to the ear is a factor.

I have at least three videos on youtube with me playing my piggy. If you search for Cerveny piggy, two of them come up. this one doesn't for some reason

LeMark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:43 pm I've got news for you. the 16 inch bell of the piggy isn't going to provide any darker sound than what you already have. Different? sure, and they are a blast to play if you get a good one, but the 410 is a very good copy of a very good tuba. I'm not sure it would be that much of an upgrade for you

Not even with the much-larger bore of the Piggy?

I think the Bell that is 2 in larger would counteract the larger bore

Well, I went up to Buckeye Brass and Winds last week and tried their 4 valve Piggy...they had sold the 5 valve they had a few days before I got there. Rob Phillips and Shawn were both very accommodating and helpful. Buckeye is a good place to try horns because it is in a converted church, so there is no need to wonder what the horn is going to sound like in a bigger space.

As far as sound is concerned, I loved the horn. IDK whether I should call it a more mellow sound than the 410 or darker, but it is definitely very colorful and absolutely beautiful. The lower register opens up more than the 410 and is very strong. The middle and upper registers are very nice, too. The horn sounded great to me below the bell and also sounded about the same when I got Rob to play it and stepped away from it in a large room. I did find that there were some intonation quirks, but didn't note where exactly they were...some in the middle of the staff, a few low notes. I didn't take note of the exact notes because I just wondered how I would deal with several pitches that I couldn't quite seem to lip into tune. They weren't that far out, maybe 10 or 15 cents, but I didn't have the skills to deal with them.

The other thing that was a surprise to me was how open the horn was. I felt very little resistance and ran out of air about three quarter notes before the end of phrases I can play easily on my 410. I'm not exactly sure whether I was using too much air and playing too loudly or not. I have to say that I don't, at 75 y/o and out of shape, have the lung capacity of a typical middle aged tuba player, who might handle the Piggy just fine.

I'd have to commit to a serious fitness program to lose fat and increase endurance before I could consider the Piggy. YMWV.

As I said, Rob and Shawn were very helpful and I will visit them again if I find another of their horns that I want to try. Rob says that he has an order from Cerveny scheduled to arrive soon, so there will be a lot more horns to try soon.
royjohn