I recently bought a Wessex British F and I'm in love! I just wanted to see who else out there also has one so we can talk about them. I know Tucker Jolly owns an original British F, but who else is out there?
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:56 am
by cjk
I had one around 18 years ago. It was a Boosey and Co. I was happy to buy it and happy to sell it.
I am kinda interested in the intonation and build quality of the Wessex.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:58 am
by Sousaswag
cjk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:56 am
I had one around 18 years ago. It was a Boosey and Co. I was happy to buy it and happy to sell it.
I am kinda interested in the intonation and build quality of the Wessex.
I'm interested in the build quality of the newer Wessex stuff. My repair guy mentioned that the bells on their big horns are *really* thin and like to crumple easily. I've experienced that with the big bells on the Eastmans as well. That's the big reason of my being wary of Chinese horns.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 am
by 2nd tenor
tylerferris1213 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:26 am
I recently bought a Wessex British F and I'm in love! I just wanted to see who else out there also has one so we can talk about them. I know Tucker Jolly owns an original British F, but who else is out there?
I’m puzzled in that I live in Britain and have never heard of a British F Tuba before; we virtually exclusively use Eb and BBb Tubas here.
Additionally, and to the best of my knowledge, Wessex manufacture nothing themselves and what they sell is made specifically for them in China. In my opinion that’s not really British, though Chinese copies of instruments that were made in Britain might be involved.
To be fair to the British guy who runs Wessex my understanding is that he demands quality from his suppliers and works with them to improve the product that he sells.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
by LeMark
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
tylerferris1213 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:26 am
I recently bought a Wessex British F and I'm in love! I just wanted to see who else out there also has one so we can talk about them. I know Tucker Jolly owns an original British F, but who else is out there?
I’m puzzled in that I live in Britain and have never heard of a British F Tuba before; we virtually exclusively use Eb and BBb Tubas here.
Additionally, and to the best of my knowledge, Wessex manufacture nothing themselves and what they sell is made specifically for them in China - in my view that’s not really British, though Chinese copies of instruments that were made in Britain might be involved.
I am certain the OP means a 3+1 compensating (or non-compensating style ref. the Barlow version) Besson or Besson-style F tuba, irrespective of country of origin. The premier of the Vaughan Williams tuba concerto was played on such an instrument.
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
I’d be surprised if it was anything other than a cut down Eb Bass and very much doubt that any product development was done (by Besson / B&H) to sort out the resultant issues.
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
I’d be surprised if it was anything other than a cut down Eb Bass and very much doubt that any product development was done (by Besson / B&H) to sort out the resultant issues.
Based on their scarcity, you are very likely correct.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:30 am
by tylerferris1213
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
That's really interesting. I fell in love with it. It's the most in-tune tuba I've ever played, and it's the reason I'm selling my Getzen G-60 F tuba.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:35 am
by bloke
The Wessex that I played played very similar to the two or three Besson 3 + 1 comps that I have played over the years. I would say that it's usable but difficult, and maybe the Wessex is slightly less difficult than the originals. I didn't see that it was a copy of a cut down E flat, but look to me very much like those original Besson F tubas that I've seen. The best that I have played played a little bit better and easier than the Boosey referred to previously, as I have played that one as well. To me all of these are curiosities, but I offer no criticism to anyone who owns one and enjoys playing it. In the past, I myself have owned some difficult tubas and managed to work with them.
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
That's really interesting. I fell in love with it. It's the most in-tune tuba I've ever played, and it's the reason I'm selling my Getzen G-60 F tuba.
it might be in tune, I just thought it was the most extreme version of "F tuba sounding like a large Euphonium" I've ever played. Even more than the MW 182
tylerferris1213 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:26 am
I recently bought a Wessex British F and I'm in love! I just wanted to see who else out there also has one so we can talk about them. I know Tucker Jolly owns an original British F, but who else is out there?
I’m puzzled in that I live in Britain and have never heard of a British F Tuba before; we virtually exclusively use Eb and BBb Tubas here.
Additionally, and to the best of my knowledge, Wessex manufacture nothing themselves and what they sell is made specifically for them in China. In my opinion that’s not really British, though Chinese copies of instruments that were made in Britain might be involved.
To be fair to the British guy who runs Wessex my understanding is that he demands quality from his suppliers and works with them to improve the product that he sells.
The standard orchestral F tuba in British orchestras up until perhaps the 60's was a five-valve uncompensated F tuba first popularized by Harry Barlow. There were some compensated variations. Clifford Bevan shows a picture of a young George Wall playing one in his book The Tuba Family.
Fletcher famously played an Eb because by that time the British-style orchestral F tubas were no longer available. (He also played a Holton 345, just as George Wall also played a Alexander 164, when each of them needed a big tuba.) The subsequent generations played the EEb compensating tubas because that's what they could get.
As to where they are actually made--yawn. We all know the difference between British-style, German-style, and American-style tubas, even while recognizing that any of them may have been made anywhere.
Your characterization of Jonathan Hodgetts is correct, of course.
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
I’d be surprised if it was anything other than a cut down Eb Bass and very much doubt that any product development was done (by Besson / B&H) to sort out the resultant issues.
If you are talking about Barlow F tubas, Boosey made those going back at least to the 1890's, even predating the broad application of the Blaikley compensation system that is now standard. They are quite small indeed--typically a 12 or 13" bell and looking like a large euphonium. They were usually equipped with three top-action and two side-action valves, like a French Saxhorn Basse.
At the time, the standard orchestral instrument in the U.S. was just transitioning to a German-style contrabass tuba with the fame of August Helleberg. Most typical in U.S. orchestras prior to that probably used Bb euphoniums, or in some cases Eb tubas, from the likes of Henry Distin. German orchestral instruments were usually F tubas (except when contrabass tubas were called for) and not particularly large.
Stuart Roebuck was probably the last to play a British-style orchestral F, and he did so in the Hallé until 1984.
Rick "definitely not a cut-down Eb tuba, at least originally" Denney
LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:04 am
There once was a besson/boosey version that looked like a cut down Eb. Wessex got a hold of one and copied it. Personally I wasn't a fan when I tested one. It's a tiny instrument with a tiny bell, and just didn't sound like a tuba to me
I’d be surprised if it was anything other than a cut down Eb Bass and very much doubt that any product development was done (by Besson / B&H) to sort out the resultant issues.
If you are talking about Barlow F tubas, Boosey made those going back at least to the 1890's, even predating the broad application of the Blaikley compensation system that is now standard. They are quite small indeed--typically a 12 or 13" bell and looking like a large euphonium. They were usually equipped with three top-action and two side-action valves, like a French Saxhorn Basse.
At the time, the standard orchestral instrument in the U.S. was just transitioning to a German-style contrabass tuba with the fame of August Helleberg. Most typical in U.S. orchestras prior to that probably used Bb euphoniums, or in some cases Eb tubas, from the likes of Henry Distin. German orchestral instruments were usually F tubas (except when contrabass tubas were called for) and not particularly large.
Stuart Roebuck was probably the last to play a British-style orchestral F, and he did so in the Hallé until 1984.
Rick "definitely not a cut-down Eb tuba, at least originally" Denney
I actually re-read the British tuba chapter in Bevan's The Tuba Family because of this thread and viewed that photo. I wonder if the tuba player in this video is possibly Stuart Roebuck. There's a strong resemblance.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:56 pm
by Oedipoes
If you're on Facebook, I can recommend the group called 'Harry Barlow and the British F Tuba'.
I hosts a wealth of information about these British F tubas.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:39 pm
by edfirth
I thought the sound the guy got on the two Wessex demos was terrific. Ed
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:48 pm
by bloke
I like the sound/sonority/quality-of-sound of those things - as well as ancient (probably early 1960's) Besson as well, but the issue is the difficulty of coaxing those instrument to the "middle of the street" and "away from the ditches" to where most would define as "good pitch"...ie. the amount of pitch-bending required. It's not difficult at first - and seems to not be a big deal - but after an hour of that extra effort (for good tuning), it can begin to wear (mentally and physically).
Mr. J sounded good when he used one on a solo recording, but it's fairly easy to hear which pitches needed favoring.
That having been said...it's certainly not the only F tuba with tuning issues.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:58 pm
by Finetales
As someone who loved my old Boosey small 15" bell compensating Eb precisely because it played and sounded like a big euphonium, and someone who is more comfortable in F than Eb, it makes me happy to read that the Wessex British F plays well. Even typical 19" bell British Ebs and I don't see eye to eye.
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:38 am
by Fivevalves
Can I add another +1 for Cliff Bevans book "The Tuba Family", now with a second edition available. If you are in any way a tuba person then you absolutely need to have a copy though I do note that Abebooks are a tad steep;
I haven't ordered a copy from here for years so can't vouch for how quick/ efficient etc it may be but....if you're into tubas, you should have a copy....
Thanks
Simon
Re: Who owns a British F tuba?
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:56 am
by bloke
I'm thinking that the Besson three plus one compensating F tubas only have a 12-in bell. Is that correct? I'm thinking that one of the big Florida universities owned one in the past, and North Texas state owned one as well.
I might be mixing up years, but I thought that I saw a privately owned one at that big tube of shindig in Lexington Kentucky quite a few years ago, I seem to remember going out to a parking lot with an acquaintance and he was being shown one by someone else who had it in their car and was offering it for sale. I'm wondering if it was Rex who was looking at it.
