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I was on Wessex's website and noticed they're making a BBb cimbasso (with a CC version coming later). The thing that caught my eye is it having 4 side-action pistons. Looks like there's also a kicker on the left hand if you zoom in on the second photo.

Can't say I've ever seen side action before (outside of the 4th valve on compensating euphs).

Looks like there are two remove-able bits, the bell section and an L section which connects the bell section to the body of the instrument.

It looks like one could rotate things to make that front action if you wanted to.

sidebar: I really think the "traditional" (whatever) cimbasso shape is just goofy. They'd be easier to cart around if they were shaped more like a recording bariphonium. In other words, like Jim Self's Jimbasso.

Or a BBb contra bass valve trombone.

unknown territory for me.
Are there any contrabass ones that are easily playable and still sound like a trombone - rather than a euphonium or tuba...??

I would expect that the "L" section in the prototype picture would need to be significantly reinforced. To me, it looks like it would eventually bend.

I will try it and see it when it comes around, but I can't help looking at it and thinking it was designed by Dr. Seuss ...

I think they should come with a pair of knee cymbals, a bass drum to sling over your back and a pet monkey.

YorkNumber3.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:17 pm Looks a lot like that “Bach” BBb cimbasso that floated around for a while.

another top-action-to-something-other-than instrument...??

Imitating that hand position in the air, I'm not (as it were) feelin' it.

...but, @YorkNumber3.0, that Bach was the real deal...

cjk wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:58 am Looks like there are two remove-able bits, the bell section and an L section which connects the bell section to the body of the instrument.

It looks like one could rotate things to make that front action if you wanted to.

sidebar: I really think the "traditional" (whatever) cimbasso shape is just goofy. They'd be easier to cart around if they were shaped more like a recording bariphonium. In other words, like Jim Self's Jimbasso.

The shape comes from the earlier typical shape of B-flat and F VALVED bass and contrabass trombones - which extended straight forward - just as with slide trombones.

Someone decided that (at least, sitting down) they would be much less work to play were the valves be placed in front of (rather than "out from") the player. I can play mine all day (as I have - more than once or twice...ie. "two rehearsals and a show"). I only need to redo the "dual" floor pegs, because they are just a little bit to flexible (almost non-flexible enough, but just not quite). I don't like "clunky", but "wobbly support" is more annoying than "clunky appearance".

I'm building a piston B-flat (NOT tuba-length, but) 9' bass trombone bore/length one...It IS on it's way to being a piston instrument, but the 4-valve valveset is (.562") probably going to be slightly tilted off to the right as "reaching way around to the front" to articulate with the finger buttons is probably just about as awkward (based on experimentation) as what is linked in a previous post.

I'm curious if there was a reason Wessex decided to make this other than Jonathan wanted it (which, to be fair, is a good reason). I don't know of any cimbasso players (or prospective cimbasso players) clamoring for a piston BBb.

Wessex also posted some pictures/videos of the two ways you can put the horn together on their Facebook I believe. You can do it the normal way (L-shape, with the bell pointing forwards) or have the bell section off to the side pointing upwards. It's...odd, to say the least.

Personally, I would be ecstatic if Wessex made a Kurath-style compact tuba form piston F cimbasso. But I need to be able to afford and justify buying any kind of cimbasso first!

YorkNumber3.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:17 pm Looks a lot like that “Bach” BBb cimbasso that floated around for a while.

I've played one of those. It is with no exaggeration the worst brass instrument I've ever played by a good margin...and I've played a lot of infamously bad horns! It was completely awful in every possible way.

YorkNumber3.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:17 pm Looks a lot like that “Bach” BBb cimbasso that floated around for a while.

Never heard of this thing. Epic stinker?

I don’t get this layout.

Looks like a poor hand position for extended playing and the slide accessibility appears to be lacking.

It would be interesting if someone were to rig up a (front action) compensating piston cluster into a cimbasso. And then put first and third slides very close to where the body is gripped.

I’m actually thinking in the realm of seldom used low brass things, an actual substitute for the ophicleide with valves and modern pitch with the bell in similar dimensions with similar orientation would be pretty cool in terms of offering an option in timbre that’s not super accessible at the moment.

matt g wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 6:13 am I don’t get this layout.

Looks like a poor hand position for extended playing and the slide accessibility appears to be lacking.

It would be interesting if someone were to rig up a (front action) compensating piston cluster into a cimbasso. And then put first and third slides very close to where the body is gripped.

I’m actually thinking in the realm of seldom used low brass things, an actual substitute for the ophicleide with valves and modern pitch with the bell in similar dimensions with similar orientation would be pretty cool in terms of offering an option in timbre that’s not super accessible at the moment.

I believe that Mike Johnson in the UK has built 3+1 compensated cimbassos.

Finetales wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:45 pm I'm curious if there was a reason Wessex decided to make this other than Jonathan wanted it (which, to be fair, is a good reason). I don't know of any cimbasso players (or prospective cimbasso players) clamoring for a piston BBb.

....

BBb is the most popular key of tuba. I'm sure there are plenty of BBb players with money who'd like to have a new toy without having to learn to mash different buttons.

cjk wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 7:32 am

Finetales wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:45 pm I'm curious if there was a reason Wessex decided to make this other than Jonathan wanted it (which, to be fair, is a good reason). I don't know of any cimbasso players (or prospective cimbasso players) clamoring for a piston BBb.

....

BBb is the most popular key of tuba. I'm sure there are plenty of BBb players with money who'd like to have a new toy without having to learn to mash different buttons.

... in that case, shouldn't it just be a three valve?

matt g wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 6:13 am I’m actually thinking in the realm of seldom used low brass things, an actual substitute for the ophicleide with valves and modern pitch with the bell in similar dimensions with similar orientation would be pretty cool in terms of offering an option in timbre that’s not super accessible at the moment.

I would really love a valved ophicleide. Takao Nakagawa (who took over for Syhre, famous for his corni da caccia) makes one, but the price is eye-watering. In this comparison with ophicleide, valved ophicleide, and F tuba, I personally like how the valved ophicleide sounds the best. The sound is somewhere in between the leaky ophicleide (which very few can really make sound good, IMO) and the F tuba.

A relatively affordable Wessex valved ophicleide would be really interesting.

Finetales wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:49 am

matt g wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 6:13 am I’m actually thinking in the realm of seldom used low brass things, an actual substitute for the ophicleide with valves and modern pitch with the bell in similar dimensions with similar orientation would be pretty cool in terms of offering an option in timbre that’s not super accessible at the moment.

I would really love a valved ophicleide. Takao Nakagawa (who took over for Syhre, famous for his corni da caccia) makes one, but the price is eye-watering. In this comparison with ophicleide, valved ophicleide, and F tuba, I personally like how the valved ophicleide sounds the best. The sound is somewhere in between the leaky ophicleide (which very few can really make sound good, IMO) and the F tuba.

A relatively affordable Wessex valved ophicleide would be really interesting.

LOL...Make the back bow of a cimbasso bell section only 90 (upward), and chop off the bell flare.