TubaForum.net

Maybe this has been discussed before.

Just pondering the idea of creating a category of the above topic where members can share sheetmusic..... Because sheetmusic is expensive and quite often (unfamiliar titles) is disappointing. any member that is not repectable as in does not return or replace sheetmusic is blocked from future use of the collective membership library....

And now for your thoughts...

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:32 am And now for your thoughts...

Copyright lawsuit

Mark wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 11:03 am

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:32 am And now for your thoughts...

Copyright lawsuit

I initially had that thought. As a librarian, copyright issues are at the forefront of a lot of issues with lending practices. But I think as long as there is no digital component, there is no law against mailing your friends sheet music and letting them borrow it for a while.

I think you are correct about lending music, that there is no copyright issue. It isn't being COPIED (unless of course the recipient does, but then the issue is with the recipient, not the lender.)

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 11:12 am I think you are correct about lending music, that there is no copyright issue. It isn't being COPIED (unless of course the recipient does, but then the issue is with the recipient, not the lender.)

bingo

These days, it costs several dollars to mail a piece of music to someone and then to mail it back later.

It might be interesting to offer a sub forum of sheet music whereby the owners of the hard copies are no longer interested in owning, or if they own spare or worn copies that they no longer need and would like to sell or donate for the cost of postage.

In my state, I've actually had luck doing interlibrary loan for sheet music from my local library, getting copies from state universities.

What if the recipient performs the piece for profit? Does that make any difference, or is the original purchase of the music the only relevant thing?

Performance royalties are a totally separate issue from copyright issues.

I'm pretty sure I can buy a piece of legitimate printed copyrighted music for the printed price (or have it given to me), sell it to someone else for more than I paid, and owe publisher and composer nothing.

Running off a copy or making a scan and either giving it away or selling it could cause friction or trouble, though.

I am very specifically referring to lending sheetmusic via snail-mail. No copying or selling.

This whole idea depends on the trust in eachother to be honest about it. I know that will be abused, but hopefully only rarely.

Also, the person who mentioned using the current library system; thats wonderful that your local system also includes sheetmusic. I have checked with my local library network and they do not. Only books, movies and cds.

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

There already exists a system called interlibrary loan - whereby a library can borrow an item from another library and then lend it to one of it's constituents/members/patrons/students (what have you).

Eastman's Sibley Library (along with others) hold really impressive sheet music collections, and this system (again: already in place) could be used to BORROW music (which would need to be RETURNED in a timely manner).

I'm thinking a sales/donation thing would be what would work here.
- no returning "borrowed" stuff
- way less temptation to (breaking rules) scan and return "borrowed" stuff, as the recipient would then OWN the legitimately published hard copy

https://www.esm.rochester.edu/sibley/illiad_login/

Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a new university tuba teacher, and was expected to put together a tuba quartet and a tuba ensemble (all the rest of the tuba students) with no money but "Hey bloke, just order music through the university's library, which has unlimited funds". I borrowed (interlibrary loan) a whole bunch of stuff, did the bad thing (yup: xeroxed - via the band's unlimited-copies copier) and was able to put together those groups right away - rather than waiting for the university library to get around to ordering tunes, and then waiting for those publishers to get around to mailing all of those tunes.

Things didn't go amazingly well...some $$$$ promises weren't kept, and other things weren't very pleasant, incl. "No, you can't pay your student (who might even have been a better player than me...?) to sub for you to play the "Star Spangled Banner" at the ribbon-cutting for the new computer center...because we're PAYING you to be here [XXXX less than promised], and so you can FORGET going off to hear Thad Jones/Mel Lewis/Count Basie concert !!!"...at which point, I said to myself, "That's one..."

In the meantime, people were calling from home - "long distance" - asking "Where the HELL are you, bloke?" and - when I told them - asking "what the hell FOR...?" (many-many-many missed opportunities to play, including endless dozens of recording sessions - commercial jingles/station i.d.'s/pro sports theme music, TV/radio station theme music/albums/etc.)
I let the university fesser (who recruited me) know that I wasn't coming back (notified c. mid May).
One of the things I was told (in a scolding voice) was "You had better turn over all of that tuba ensemble music!"...which I did.
I ran it all through the shredder and (masking tape on the waste can) "attn: Dr. ________".

https://chatfieldband.lib.mn.us/

bloke wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:05 pm
Things didn't go amazingly well...some $$$$ promises weren't kept, and other things weren't very pleasant

I'm straying a bit off-topic, but I feel like you and I had very similar experiences at the end of our academic tenures. I taught college music theory and musicology for years, and, well...

Anyway, I think this is a good idea, but one that would be hard to execute, and one whose specific purpose may be a little thin on manpower/participants and resources. Maybe on a case-by-case/person-to-person basis, it would work.

There is a ton of public-domain music on IMSLP: www.imslp.org

I will have to look at the library's mentioned and see if they are viable for me....

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

While this is definitely a community, the music-lending thing, I think, would work much better on a more local level. And of course it does -- if you live in a large enough city to have a bunch of players of your instrument, music lending isn't uncommon. However, getting it BACK can be quite difficult. In my much younger days when I trusted people more, I lost quite a few that I lent to people who simply never gave them back. Some of which were irreplaceable.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 10:34 am While this is definitely a community, the music-lending thing, I think, would work much better on a more local level. And of course it does -- if you live in a large enough city to have a bunch of players of your instrument, music lending isn't uncommon. However, getting it BACK can be quite difficult. In my much younger days when I trusted people more, I lost quite a few that I lent to people who simply never gave them back. Some of which were irreplaceable.

In the past I’ve lost a bit of music and the occasional item that way too. There is no fool proof system against human error - it’s other than that - but these days, when I lend, I specify when I want the item back and it’s a short time period. Another way of doing things is lending in parallel, both parties lend each other something at the same time - a captive - and both items are returned at the same time.

I'll mention too the Clarinet Institue's Tuba archives. They may not have what you're looking for, but the rep lists are on their site and they have hundreds of tuba solo lit as well as quartet/quintet archives for very reasonable prices.

ISMLP can take a while to dig through, but I've found things I needed there as well!

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 10:29 pm
In the past I’ve lost a bit of music and the occasional item that way too. There is no fool proof system against human error - it’s other than that - but these days, when I lend, I specify when I want the item back and it’s a short time period. Another way of doing things is lending in parallel, both parties lend each other something at the same time - a captive - and both items are returned at the same time.

That's a really great idea, to put a time limit on it. There have been things I've lent that when I asked for them back, the person claimed I had GIVEN it to them and called me names and only reluctantly returned it. If I had made clear, via your method of saying what the return date is, that discrepancy in understanding would not have existed. Or simply making it clear, verbally, that it is not a gift but that I will be expecting its return upon request. Thanks. if I ever lend anything again! ("Neither a lender nor a borrower be.")

Never a lender or borrower be.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 8:22 am

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 10:29 pm
In the past I’ve lost a bit of music and the occasional item that way too. There is no fool proof system against human error - it’s other than that - but these days, when I lend, I specify when I want the item back and it’s a short time period. Another way of doing things is lending in parallel, both parties lend each other something at the same time - a captive - and both items are returned at the same time.

That's a really great idea, to put a time limit on it. There have been things I've lent that when I asked for them back, the person claimed I had GIVEN it to them and called me names and only reluctantly returned it. A bit like how public libraries work only the loan period is shorter. If I had made clear, via your method of saying what the return date is, that discrepancy in understanding would not have existed. Or simply making it clear, verbally, that it is not a gift but that I will be expecting its return upon request. Thanks. if I ever lend anything again! ("Neither a lender nor a borrower be.")

I’ve found that it’s really important that the time period is both quite short and very clear - the borrower also needs to acknowledge the term to the lender before the item is handed over. That’s a bit like how public libraries work only the loan period is shorter, and if someone wants the item for a further period then a renewal has to be formally agreed. Of course never lend anything that you’d be really upset about either loosing or it getting badly damaged (stuff happens), and have a view as to how well you think an item will be looked after too. And then there’s just the folk who for one reason or another are unreliable or just can’t be trusted … such folk are only lent things once, if at all.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

https://nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/f ... lender-be/

rollo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 10:45 am I'll mention too the Clarinet Institue's Tuba archives. They may not have what you're looking for, but the rep lists are on their site and they have hundreds of tuba solo lit as well as quartet/quintet archives for very reasonable prices.

ISMLP can take a while to dig through, but I've found things I needed there as well!

I’ve a few pieces of Clarinet music. If you’re a treble clef reader then a four valve Tuba has the range required but a three valve instrument falls a couple of pitches short, well that’s been my experience.