Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Hi
I have a mechanical engineer friend who specialises in molded carbon fiber. If I asked him, he could probably make carbon copies (pun intended) of my Yamaha Ybb 632 valve buttons, most likely with screw molded into the part.
I play a lot of fast passages in Brass Band, so faster valves is always nice. I've adopted the Bloke method of oiling valves and they work well. But even faster would be better. I play this tuba several times a week.
My friend would probably only charge me the equivalent of $40-60USD to make one. I'm just wondering if I should bother.
Thanks
I have a mechanical engineer friend who specialises in molded carbon fiber. If I asked him, he could probably make carbon copies (pun intended) of my Yamaha Ybb 632 valve buttons, most likely with screw molded into the part.
I play a lot of fast passages in Brass Band, so faster valves is always nice. I've adopted the Bloke method of oiling valves and they work well. But even faster would be better. I play this tuba several times a week.
My friend would probably only charge me the equivalent of $40-60USD to make one. I'm just wondering if I should bother.
Thanks
-
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 1:50 pm
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 130 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something but how might different buttons help? If it’s that they’re lighter then I’d say trivially so and that looking at spring optimisation might give gains. Other than that, and good lubrication plus cleaning, my thoughts are that reaction times and finger strength will optimise valve speeds.Ricardo wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 11:50 pm Hi
I have a mechanical engineer friend who specialises in molded carbon fiber. If I asked him, he could probably make carbon copies (pun intended) of my Yamaha Ybb 632 valve buttons, most likely with screw molded into the part.
I play a lot of fast passages in Brass Band, so faster valves is always nice. I've adopted the Bloke method of oiling valves and they work well. But even faster would be better. I play this tuba several times a week.
My friend would probably only charge me the equivalent of $40-60USD to make one. I'm just wondering if I should bother.
Thanks
- matt g
- Posts: 2580
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:37 am
- Location: Southeastern New England
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 555 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
$40-60 sounds reasonable. I think Bloke’s old lightweight buttons fetch about $200 for a set when they show up for sale.
One of my horns has MAW valves that are lightweight with the titanium stems and aluminum buttons. They are noticeably lighter in the hand than the stock pistons. This allows for that horn to use lighter springs which makes the action feel lighter (and faster) both ways. But this is a front action tuba where the spring only has to slide the piston forward, not up against gravity.
On a top action horn, you might see some improvement with lighter buttons. It’s tough to know without trying.
One of my horns has MAW valves that are lightweight with the titanium stems and aluminum buttons. They are noticeably lighter in the hand than the stock pistons. This allows for that horn to use lighter springs which makes the action feel lighter (and faster) both ways. But this is a front action tuba where the spring only has to slide the piston forward, not up against gravity.
On a top action horn, you might see some improvement with lighter buttons. It’s tough to know without trying.
Dillon/Walters CC (sold)
Meinl-Weston 2165 (sold)
Meinl-Weston 2165 (sold)
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19311
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3849 times
- Been thanked: 4101 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Yamaha buttons are already pretty darn lightweight, and - if you want to make them lighter - you can just mount them on a lathe - using a Yamaha valve stem - and turn the skirts off of them.
If you don't want to alter the instrument's original buttons, you can buy some so-called student Yamaha buttons and turn those down. You might even discover that you can turn down the tops of them thinner, but not too thin because the threads need some support.
The smaller objects become as part of a whole, the less significant their weight differences become due to the substances of which they are fabricated.
I don't know about embedding metal threads into carbon fiber and how long that would hold up. As to the cost of doing that, it's your money and your decision.
If you don't want to alter the instrument's original buttons, you can buy some so-called student Yamaha buttons and turn those down. You might even discover that you can turn down the tops of them thinner, but not too thin because the threads need some support.
The smaller objects become as part of a whole, the less significant their weight differences become due to the substances of which they are fabricated.
I don't know about embedding metal threads into carbon fiber and how long that would hold up. As to the cost of doing that, it's your money and your decision.
- bort2.0
- Posts: 5254
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:13 am
- Location: Minneapolis
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 999 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
I wouldn't buy a set without first trying one of them. Why have him make 4 if you know after the first one that you do t like it?
If a set of 4 is $40-60, then maybe worth a try, but I don't know if that's a lot of money to you or not.
If each one is $40-60, then it definitely doesn't sound worth it.
Do you have fast enough springs for what you are trying to do? How fast are you playing, anyway?
-
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
- Has thanked: 1556 times
- Been thanked: 467 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
You guys are missing the most important part: the cool factor.
Some old Yorks, Martins, and perhaps a King rotary valved CC
-
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:50 pm
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 98 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
.
Last edited by YorkNumber3.0 on Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- These users thanked the author YorkNumber3.0 for the post (total 2):
- bloke (Mon May 29, 2023 4:06 pm) • York-aholic (Mon May 29, 2023 8:34 pm)
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19311
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3849 times
- Been thanked: 4101 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
If they're really selling for that much, maybe I should crank out a bunch of them...
...but I doubt if there are 250 peeps who would pay that for a set...
...but I doubt if there are 250 peeps who would pay that for a set...
- bort2.0
- Posts: 5254
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:13 am
- Location: Minneapolis
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 999 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
No, no, I think he meant "carbon fiber buttons are less warm than brass"YorkNumber3.0 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:07 amWhich is, of course, surprising because “tuba player” and “cool factor” are very commonly associated.York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 9:50 am You guys are missing the most important part: the cool factor.
- These users thanked the author bort2.0 for the post:
- York-aholic (Tue May 30, 2023 4:05 pm)
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19311
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3849 times
- Been thanked: 4101 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
World class buttons?bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:53 pmNo, no, I think he meant "carbon fiber buttons are less warm than brass"YorkNumber3.0 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:07 amWhich is, of course, surprising because “tuba player” and “cool factor” are very commonly associated.York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 9:50 am You guys are missing the most important part: the cool factor.
-
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
- Has thanked: 1556 times
- Been thanked: 467 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Like lexan mouthpiece rims for really hot or really cold days. Don’t want to burn my delicate/sensitive fingertips.
- These users thanked the author York-aholic for the post:
- bloke (Tue May 30, 2023 7:52 pm)
Some old Yorks, Martins, and perhaps a King rotary valved CC
- windshieldbug
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:02 pm
- Location: 8 vb
- Has thanked: 325 times
- Been thanked: 90 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
Why would anyone forge something that’s already already a copy!?
If it’s tourist season, why can’t we shoot them?
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19311
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3849 times
- Been thanked: 4101 times
Re: Molded/Forged Carbon Valve buttons
so...They're carbon copies, then...??windshieldbug wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:34 pm Why would anyone forge something that’s already already a copy!?
(whoops...sorry...joke ALREADY used in the original post...I supposed I COPIED it.)
- These users thanked the author bloke for the post:
- windshieldbug (Tue May 30, 2023 7:54 pm)