TubaForum.net

New leadpipe from Mike Johnson on the Imperial Eb tuba. Can you tell the difference?

Definitely sounds cleaner. I'll never let you play the Star because you'd cry and I hate to see grown men cry.

Am I not more noticing that the recording level is slightly lower compared to any other differences) in the replacement mouth pipe comparison videos? Also, aren't you more accustomed to playing that instrument in general, since you've had it for a while?

I'd be more interested in you telling us how it feels and how the change in controlling various things seems to you to be, versus how things sound to us on our headphones or (eek!) 1 inch laptop speakers.

I'd also be interested in external caliper measurements at various equal points. I myself seem to be partial to mouth pipe tubes that start smaller.

I think one thing that I like about my 1958 compensating E-flat is that it has a small shank receiver, which sort of restricts the capillary bore of the mouth pipe tube, which I suspect isn't a whole lot bigger than a half an inch on the inside at the beginning portion.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:47 pm Definitely sounds cleaner. I'll never let you play the Star because you'd cry and I hate to see grown men cry.

Thank you for looking out for me.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:02 pm Am I not more noticing that the recording level is slightly lower compared to any other differences) in the replacement mouth pipe comparison videos? Also, aren't you more accustomed to playing that instrument in general, since you've had it for a while?

I'd be more interested in you telling us how it feels and how the change in controlling various things seems to you to be, versus how things sound to us on our headphones or (eek!) 1 inch laptop speakers.

I'd also be interested in external caliper measurements at various equal points. I myself seem to be partial to mouth pipe tubes that start smaller.

I think one thing that I like about my 1958 compensating E-flat is that it has a small shank receiver, which sort of restricts the capillary bore of the mouth pipe tube, which I suspect isn't a whole lot bigger than a half an inch on the inside at the beginning portion.

I can’t guarantee that the recording level was the same, although I tried to get the mic placement in the same area. I’m not a fan of how YouTube compresses the audio. The RAL audio, at least to me, sounds better. I could put those files on Google Drive if someone were interested.

True, I’ve had the instrument a while and have grown accustomed to it, although I like it a lot more now.

Previously, the intonation was harder to manage, especially in the high range. And certain notes throughout the scale were further out of tune, and required more work. Now, I don’t feel like I’m working at all. It responds quicker and easier, and overall is more enjoyable to play. The low range on these things are not a wide open blow no matter what lead pipe you put on it, but it now feels like the notes will actually respond without too much work. Similar to F Tuba, you feed it what it wants, but now it feels less like pouring something through a strainer, and instead, now it sports a freer flow. Overall, the tuba is easier to play. Now I don’t feel like I have to do any unnecessary work. Is it perfect? No. Is it as carefree as the Packer? No, but it’s a difference animal, and I ain’t complainin’.

OD where pipe meets receiver- 15.86mm
OD 1/4 way - 16.89
OD halfway - 17.63
OD 3/4 way - 17.75
OD meeting the 1st valve knuckle 18.94

By the way @Doc, the recording you put on youtube of the Houston Brass Band playing Barber's Adagio for Strings sounds great...

https://youtu.be/h7V3VTTG0Io



I vote for Vaughan Williams' Tomas Tallis Fantasia next.

So the 8th partial E flat and D: Are they less saggy?

A whole bunch of compensating tubas seem to feature receivers that are halfway between small and standard, and it looks like that's what he uses as well... whereas a small shank tuba mouthpiece would not bottom out.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:45 pm So the 8th partial E flat and D: Are they less saggy?

A whole bunch of compensating tubas seem to feature receivers that are halfway between small and standard, and it looks like that's what he uses as well... whereas a small shank tuba mouthpiece would not bottom out.

Not sure. He offers receivers to fit small (British), standard (American), and euro shanks.

The mouthpiece in the photo is a standard Imperial shank. I’ll test it with a small shank and report the results.

And yes, those partials are much less saggy and can actually be played in tune. My problem is the same as it always is: my pitch is low on every tuba I play. I could stand to have the tuning slide cut a half inch.

Doc (with the big mout… uh… resonating chamber)

I wouldn't be surprised if I miscalculated, but that sounds like the choke point might be about .57" which - to me - is pretty big.

' nice looking tuba.

I'm pretty sure that this was done in my store, the other tuba player from your brass band was teaching me a bit about E-flat tubas when he came to pick it up. Absolutely beautiful horn.

Unadulterated/uncompressed audio files featuring the new leadpipe here:

New Leadpipe Imperial Eb Files

Unadulterated/uncompressed files from the unboxing:

Original Leadpipe Imperial Eb Files

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:45 pm I wouldn't be surprised if I miscalculated, but that sounds like the choke point might be about .57" which - to me - is pretty big.

' nice looking tuba.

Here’s the only other additional reference I can provide to help:
The small does not seem to bottom out, and it doesn’t wobble at all.

York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:11 pm By the way @Doc, the recording you put on youtube of the Houston Brass Band playing Barber's Adagio for Strings sounds great...

https://youtu.be/h7V3VTTG0Io

It’s maybe a thread diversion, sorry, but I was ‘blown away’ by what Houston Brass did on that recording. To me that’s what an excellent Brass Band can do to make music, absolutely top class stuff.

As for the lead pipe. H’mm, I’ll be outvoted but for me the original sounded pretty good - only listened on YouTube. I’ve played an Imperial and maybe they have their idiosyncrasies but plug a Wick three in and off ya’ go. Maybe they worked even better with a Kosi cup mouthpiece? I’m not sure about dropping the receiver height too, but if you’re happy then all’s well.

Interesting point about the high quality of the Packer. I really like the Old Imperials, and they’re better than I need, but I guess that the best Packers are a level again above - I’ll settle for anything that’s just both better than me and within budget.

So the 8th partial E flat and D: Are they less saggy?

Just as a general observation, and I might be completely wrong, but as I understand it British Brass Band Eb Basses were never meant to be used on notes as high as that. That’s a soloists range and an Eb Bass isn’t a soloists instrument, that’s what Euphoniums are for.

I post about this idea too often, but if I had a chance to play in a really top notch brass band like Bill's or maybe even a bunch of local Memphis Symphony musicians plus regular subs or something like that, I would probably purchase a JP, purchase a Yamaha yeb-321 bell, and build myself a brand spanking new 15-in compensating E flat, were it that I was assigned the E flat part. It's just too hard to find old English made 15 inch bell compensating e flats that still have good valves, and (blasphemy warning) I think new JP valve sets might be put together a little bit better than Edgware Road valve sets were. Bill lucked out, but I probably wouldn't.

All of that having been said, I don't think a band is ever going to be formed here, and I would strongly politic to play the B-flat part anyway. When there are two tuba parts, I always view the lower one as the principal, and I like to drive the bus.

Maybe I’m completely wrong but in a Brass Band the principal Tuba is the Eb and normally the one (of the two) that plays the higher pitched part in any divisions. The Eb gives the note, the BBb the weight and the Bass Trombone the edge. Anything difficult is played by the Eb’s and they ‘drive the bus’. That’s not to look down on my BBb colleagues but just simply the way things are. My limited experience of BBbs compared to Eb’s is that they just aren’t agile enough, or rather aren’t agile enough in the hands of ordinary players.

Interestingly I have, for some weeks now, been blessed by the presence of a most accomplished musician sitting next to me. He plays Eb Bass in our Band for fun and because his teenage daughter is a 2nd Cornet player there, but his main / own Band is seriously good and he’s a top class Cornet player in it. Anyway, as I said, the Eb part is split and I give him the top part whilst I play the bottom. The higher pitched notes ring more cleanly, better note separation, whilst the lower note adds weight to the chord. The higher pitch drives the chord and rhythm - rings out above the rest - and hence having your best player play the higher division makes sense.

There’s an exception to every rule. With my other section mate she plays the higher part ‘cause playing low and through the fourth valve isn’t her strength - play to peoples strengths.

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:00 pm Maybe I’m completely wrong but in a Brass Band the principal Tuba is the Eb and normally the one (of the two) that plays the higher pitched part in any divisions.

yes...
And when there are - very rarely - two tuba parts in orchestral music, the higher one is labeled 1 or 1st and plays the higher part...

...but - other than pieces such as Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique" (where the second part - if modern instruments - is totally parenthetical), I prefer to choose/play the lower part, because I view it as (ok, not labeled "first" nor "principal", but) the main part - and the part on which the patrons' ears (if listening to the bass) are focused.

If I'm subbing, ringering, or visiting with a community band, I'll always choose the lower octave or "root" (if divisi parts).

The new mouthpipe definitely sounds better. More centered sound and intonation.

York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:11 pm By the way @Doc, the recording you put on youtube of the Houston Brass Band playing Barber's Adagio for Strings sounds great...

https://youtu.be/h7V3VTTG0Io



I vote for Vaughan Williams' Tomas Tallis Fantasia next.

Thank you, and duly noted!

imnotbrown wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:56 pm I'm pretty sure that this was done in my store, the other tuba player from your brass band was teaching me a bit about E-flat tubas when he came to pick it up. Absolutely beautiful horn.

Sounds right to me. I appreciate the great work!

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:40 am

York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:11 pm By the way @Doc, the recording you put on youtube of the Houston Brass Band playing Barber's Adagio for Strings sounds great...

https://youtu.be/h7V3VTTG0Io

It’s maybe a thread diversion, sorry, but I was ‘blown away’ by what Houston Brass did on that recording. To me that’s what an excellent Brass Band can do to make music, absolutely top class stuff.

As for the lead pipe. H’mm, I’ll be outvoted but for me the original sounded pretty good - only listened on YouTube. I’ve played an Imperial and maybe they have their idiosyncrasies but plug a Wick three in and off ya’ go. Maybe they worked even better with a Kosi cup mouthpiece? I’m not sure about dropping the receiver height too, but if you’re happy then all’s well.

Interesting point about the high quality of the Packer. I really like the Old Imperials, and they’re better than I need, but I guess that the best Packers are a level again above - I’ll settle for anything that’s just both better than me and within budget.

So the 8th partial E flat and D: Are they less saggy?

Just as a general observation, and I might be completely wrong, but as I understand it British Brass Band Eb Basses were never meant to be used on notes as high as that. That’s a soloists range and an Eb Bass isn’t a soloists instrument, that’s what Euphoniums are for.

Thanks for the comment on the Barber. For phone listening, it does sound better on headphones or good speakers, particularly the pedal C at the end. Despite being a not-perfect performance, it was a really, really nice music-making experience.

Regarding the leadpipe, a couple folks have contacted me outside the forum and offered comments similar to yours. There are certainly some tradeoffs, but the end result suits my needs.

And yes, solo cornet and euphonium get the usual glory as soloists. My goal is to work up Tuba Copper this summer and have it ready just in case they ever want a bass solo. And who says I’m not an optimist?