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I did an A/B with a Yamaha and the Eastman with a DC Service Band player in their rehearsal / performance space, and in a smaller room in the same building. There were differences. We both played both the horns, and listened to each other play the same parts / excerpts.

Without getting too off on the weeds about them, if I was going to play in a section or a large ensemble I would pick up the Yamaha. If I was taking an audition I would pick up the Eastman. The Eastman had a clarity and immediacy to it that the Yamaha didn't, and the Yamaha had more "breadth" in the sound and maybe a bit more room to push the louder end of the horn. Both were excellent horns and we agreed either would be acceptable, but there were subtle differences. In the end I would say it's a personal preference for the player.

sidebar: commenting on "were I to pick one for an audition"

Gene - back when he didn't have as much cachet, and had to audition in preliminary rounds - would always get past preliminary rounds with a 186.

I have no idea if "tuba sound" tastes have changed (in regards to other-than-tuba-players), but - when I pull out my F tuba and play "most any literature" (as demonstrated when I linked the video of the Organ Symphony, whereby most tuba players might choose a really large tuba to play that), the trombone players' eyebrows always - and "throughout the decades" - seem to rise (in a good way)...and my F tuba is basically a "fake 186" (B&S Symphonie).

Big wide-sounding tubas vs. each other vs. other sizes of tubas:

The players who play with the best time, come the closest to playing in tune, and their excerpts remind audition committees the most of the pieces themselves being played (I suppose that means "played musically") are usually those who end up as finalists. Sometimes, certain individuals have been pre-chosen (if not for only the finals, actually for the job being offered). Personally, I don't believe that any private corporation should be required by any other organization to go through "cattle-call" interviews (or - in the case of musicians - auditions), but that's the way it is with orchestras, so people go to a tremendous amount of trouble and preparation in the hopes that various orchestras' audition procedures are actually legitimate.

end of sidebar

And considering the very wide gulf in price, and most auditioning tubists not being wealthy, that is high praise for the Eastman. Mine is sold, by the way.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:53 am sidebar: commenting on "were I to pick one for an audition"

Gene - back when he didn't have as much cachet, and had to audition in preliminary rounds - would always get past preliminary rounds with a 186.


end of sidebar

I've had a running theory that I've talked about here and there over the years that a 186 or 188 would get a player through more screened rounds than a York copy. My thinking is that in isolation, they have a great sound and provide more clarity than the bigger horns. So while I think playing back-to-back against someone with a 6/4 York-copy-type-horn wouldn't work, because the 6/4 will wow more when played solo,* using the smaller horn to GET TO the later round might be a better tactic.

Yes yes yes, then you have to learn all the excerpts on two horns and all that. There are flaws to the plan, but I still think I'm right that even if you'd lose the later rounds, you'd get to them more often using a 186.



*As a solo instrument playing excerpts, I think the 6/4 BATs sound good, even if they get lost once the rest of the ensemble is present

response without quoting:

On (mostly from the 1970's and earlier, since the 6/4 C yorkaphone craze didn't really begin until c. four decades ago) recordings, It's much easier for me to pick out/notice the tuba, when it's a normal-sized tuba...which is why (when doing the 6/4 thing) I'm striving to "focus". I love the broad sound/experience (wonderful for imitating a string bass sound, when playing in a wind band), but clarity must then be maintained (as well as rejecting the temptation to overpower a 6/4 instrument as a way to put so much "nose" into the sound that it's impossible to ignore - yet terribly obnoxious).

With a 4/4 instrument, the struggle is the make the sound more broad (in a large ensemble) as there's typically plenty of clarity...but (previous paragraph) the ease of "nose" creeping into the sound is even more so, thus even more care must be taken to avoid that. What many of us (me included) sometimes do not realize is that our 4/4-size instruments (when used in symphony orchestras) actually sound QUITE broad, and are projecting QUITE well (without any over-the-top efforts required).

Paying attention to most all of the other orchestral instruments, they virtually never (regardless of volume, etc.) create uncharacteristic sounds as part of their performance practices. Even when violins "dig into" the G string (ex: passionate eastern European music, etc.) it's still controlled. As easy as it is to "blat" on the trombone, it's just not done (UNLESS as some rare/comical effect).

I'm well aware that I'm not God's gift to the tuba, and this orchestra is just another freeway philharmonic, but here's an example of a 'mere' 11/16" bore (.687") barely-4/4 B-flat tuba playing some very loud passages...plenty of sound, very easy to hear and broad (broad - other than the low B-natural "dance interruption" in the last movement, which is supposed to be a humorous special effect)...
...Bartok wrote this for the Boston Symphony, but - being an eastern European - I determined that this particular instrument - of those that I own - might sound the most like a "Piggy" or a "St. Pete" type of eastern European tuba. (Mrs. bloke turned her iPhone 5 on-and-off when she noticed me raising my tuba to play.)



I suppose I posted this, as "6/4 size & 3/4-inch bore C length" seems to have become the default American orchestra tuba (other than when covering ophicleide parts), particularly since there are now Chinese mock-ups that are offered for sub-$10K pricing.

I'm glad that I have a selection here, and I'm grateful for the selection that I have.

Only york ive ever played on was an 836 we had on consignment a year ago. It humbled me as a player. I'm a big guy and it felt like too much horn for me. Need to try and get chances to play on more of these. I would hate for stuff this size to actually become the standard but ill need to be familiar with them regardless.

Really big tubas feel wrong and impossible if you've never played them, but feel right after sticking with them for two or three weeks. Moving back to really small tubas can feel just as wrong, but it's easier to adjust because you've done it before. I've experienced both of these.

A lot of people try to get small tuba timbre out of a big tuba. That’s difficult.

Trying to get a flugelhorn to sound like a trumpet is also difficult.

The amount of air that we use to play these instruments is actually minute (we are tightening and closing our lips - actually attempting to prevent air from escaping from them other than a tiny amount which makes our lips vibrate) until we play really low pitches and our teeth are more like a quarter inch apart - or even more - as are our lips.

Even though the amount of air that we use is minute, it's less minute when playing a really large tuba, and the person doing it has to step their game up a little bit in order to make those things sound as they should. It's also a tendency to sound real blasty on a small tuba after moving back from a really big one, because too much air is being used.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:56 am Really big tubas feel wrong and impossible if you've never played them, but feel right after sticking with them for two or three weeks. Moving back to really small tubas can feel just as wrong, but it's easier to adjust because you've done it before. I've experienced both of these.

I've been playing on a 5/4 for a while now, i have to imagine that picking up one of these horns a second time would go a bit better. But ultimately I didnt have very long to play on the 836 at all. Probably went into it with the wrong expectations.

Some of these really big tubas are made out of really thin brass. I have one like that, which has prompted me to never use a bag and always use a Jakob Winter case - which is quite heavy, so the manufacturer's decision to make it out of thin brass (though it wasn't made thin in order to make it easier to carry) didn't end up helping me tote it around.