TubaForum.net

I know I'm opening a can of worms, but I'm hoping the hive mind can get me going in the right direction. At 72 years old, with one replaced shoulder and the other worn out, plus a right hand that looks like this, I feel the need to downsize to something lighter and more compact. Covid did a number on my lungs a couple of years ago, so I can't hold a long phrase like I once could, but I refuse to give up the tuba. Been playing for almost 60 years, and many moons ago, I owned a Meinl-Weston model 30 that I wish I'd never sold when I was band directing. After joining a community band in retirement and working hard to get my chops back, I bought a Mack Brass 410, which has served me well enough in band, brass quintet, and tuba ensemble, but it has gradually gotten to be "heavier" and requires more air (nothing wrong with the horn). So I'm asking for suggestions for a 3/4 size horn. Due to my arthritic fingers (see below), rotary spatulas work much better for me than pistons, and I prefer a CC, but the only instruments that fill that bill are a Miraphone 184 which is harder to find than hens' teeth, and the Schiller "American Heritage", which I have heard is the infamous C-flat tuba. Anyone know about this? I am willing to go back to BBb if that's the best option, but most of the 3/4 have that .661 bore which I don't like the sound of, and the leadpipes on those all seem to bring the mouthpiece up to almost eye level even when the bottom of the horn is on the chair. I would prefer something in the .700-.709 range. Have looked at the Yamaha offerings in that size, but the combination of pistons and awkward hand position rule that out. I'm not auditioning for anything, so volume is not an issue, just a bit more ease of playing. I know I'm asking a lot but would appreciate any and all wisdom from the members here. Thanks.

Hmm. Small rotary CCs? You could ask Lee Stofer about the new smaller Lidl CCs.

I know there is also a Packer version of the BBb Cerveny Arion (like a Piggy with a smaller bore) that Joe has mentioned. Not sure of the weight.

As you say, the YCB-621 and its clones would almost fit the bill, except for pistons. I don't find the hand position on my YFB-621 copy (same valveset) to be uncomfortable at all—actually I find it to be just as comfortable as any tuba I have ever played, but some folks have mentioned it to be a problem.

Good luck! I hope you are playing for another 60 years!

184 C tubas for sale aren't that rare...

Whether or not he decides to pull the trigger, let's post them in this thread - when we come across them for sale.

bisontuba wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:25 pm https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/c/p ... 223108.htm

I don't know if it's just the angle, but that's an odd looking 184. Is that the original bell?

To Jim: I will be on the lookout for you. As Joe said, you do occasionally see 184 C tubas. I think a few have been for sale on here. If you posted on here or Facebook, you might rustle someone out of the woodwork who would want to sell one to you.

bisontuba wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:25 pm https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/c/p ... 223108.htm

Ad says that’s a flat whole step fifth. It’s not.

.

Here's a super-compact tuba shaped object in CC with 4 rotary valves from Schiller/Jim Laabs. For what it's worth.
https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... ns-c-tuba/.

Also Mack Brass has carried a 4 rotary sort-of version of the YBB103, the TU355L. It's still in their catalog. Perhaps Tom would chime in. Tim

Dillon Music has a new 185 in stock:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/miraphone-model-85-cc-tuba/

It's not rotary , it if it wanted a small CC I would snag one of those mack brass Yamaha 621 copies. Norm Epley has the real thing for sale, and I'm going to be at his house in a week

I have that Packer compact BBb, and it might be smaller than a normal 186 type tuba, but it's not really lighter, just more compact

I don't have one to sell...and I continue to view a 184 C (not "amazing" intonation characteristics, but...) to be more what he's asking for (he basically described it, then identified it) than anything else mentioned.

I wonder if the newer ones' 5th partial pitches are closer to E.T. tuning (??)...but I'd wager that his budget is closer to $4500 than $9500.

Further, I'd wager that the newer ones weigh more than the older ones.

I could be incorrect, but I think I’ve read some reviews from recent convention goers of that 185 that Dillon has in stock.

Not particularly glowing, to say the least.

Again, I could be incorrect………

arpthark wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:37 pm

bisontuba wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:25 pm https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/c/p ... 223108.htm

I don't know if it's just the angle, but that's an odd looking 184. Is that the original bell?

Seems to have two bell ferrules.

It claims (??) a 15 inch bell diameter which is the newer size, whereas the original bells were the better part of an inch smaller.

Quite obviously, the bell has been off the instrument, because there's no lacquer on it. I wonder if someone bought a brand new bell to replace one that was completely trashed, maybe the newer bells are shorter, and they decided to use that as a solution. Or perhaps the instrument was always sharp natured - as have been quite a few of these instruments, and they came up with this as the solution for that issue. I'm just guessing, and have no idea. I also don't know if the bell is actually 15 inches is claimed.

NapoleonWilson wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:53 pm I could be incorrect, but I think I’ve read some reviews from recent convention goers of that 185 that Dillon has in stock.

Not particularly glowing, to say the least.

Again, I could be incorrect………

Over the years, I've sold a few model 85 Miraphone tubas, including a B flat made in the early sixties that was in nearly perfect condition except for it's nitrocellulose lacquer not holding up through the decades.
I understand why way more 86s were sold, and more 84s were sold than 85s. I've never been particularly impressed with any 85 I've ever played, C or B flat. Any new one though, deserves an audition, and doesn't deserve to be judged by my reports of my past opinions.

https://bethmitchelltubastudio.com/Beth ... 00.00.html

Just did a search and saw this.

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:52 pm Dillon Music has a new 185 in stock:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/miraphone-model-85-cc-tuba/

I think someone play tested that one and found truly awful intonation problems, a while back.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:36 am

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:52 pm Dillon Music has a new 185 in stock:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/miraphone-model-85-cc-tuba/

I think someone play tested that one and found truly awful intonation problems, a while back.

Paging @tubanh84

I played the new 185 back in February. I can't recommend avoiding it strongly enough, and I picked it up wanting to like it. Yes, I hated it, but *someone* will like it. I thought it was really tight and I didn't care for having the end of the bell that far above my head. It felt like I was playing through a snorkel. It was not anything close to lightweight.

You might look for a GOOD CONDITION vintage (16-1/2 bell) FOUR VALVE (pick you length - B-flat or C) Miraphone 186 (handmade/sheet metal).

Those are going weigh less than your jimbo for two reasons:

- sheet metal
- one less valve

...and you'll still have a full-size-sounding tuba.

If you think a 19.6mm bore size is too large, just use a MOUTHPIECE with a SMALLER THROAT SIZE.

-------------------------------------
When I'm using my cimbasso on pops concerts (and peeling paint, at the appropriate moments), some people think I'm working my @$$ off...
I'm using a mouthpiece with the equivalent of a large bass trombone mouthpiece throat size.
I end all of those concerts with dry T-shirts.