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New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 am
by Doc
This has probably been discussed ad nauseum previously, but...
How is the intonation on new Alex 163 CC tubas? I seem to remember discussion stating that they are WAY better with intonation, quirks, etc. Anyone have experience?
Has anyone played a new 163 BBb or a new 164 BBb (rare birds, to be sure)?
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:34 am
by DandyZ629
Being an Alexander freak...the new CC's are far less problematic intonation wise. I think they're exquisite instruments. However, they don't quite have the "stank" that the older instruments had. I've owned 3 Alexanders and played on several others. Ironically, the one with the worst intonation that I ever played, was played by Mike Thornton in the Cincinnati Symphony for 30+ years. It made me appreciate even more, how much of a monster musician Mike was. As far as the BBb's go...the older horns were always more "with it" than the CC's. I've unfortunately never had the opportunity to play a 164. Bucket list item for sure!
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:28 am
by bort2.0
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 am
This has probably been discussed ad nauseum previously, but...
How is the intonation on new Alex 163 CC tubas? I seem to remember discussion stating that they are WAY better with intonation, quirks, etc. Anyone have experience?
Has anyone played a new 163 BBb or a new 164 BBb (rare birds, to be sure)?
First... wasn't there a post on the other place about the financial troubles of Gebr Alexander recently? Something like they were selling their building, moving to a different shop, and getting back to basics (i.e., stick with the moneymaker -- french horns).
Beyond this, a few thoughts:
* Talk to Tom McGrady. He's a big Alex fan, and has owned many, including a new one. He also has some sort of modification he's done to the older ones that seems to help out with the intonation.
* You could also talk to Steve Ferguson at Horn Guys, for a rundown on the newer Alexander tubas. They are pretty rare, and pretty dang special.
* Before buying my Alex, I've looked and researched and talked about MANY over MANY years (a shock, I'm sure). Here are a few things that I've learned, specific to your quesitons:
-- The new 163 CC's are generally regarded as having modern intonation, instead of "classic" intonation. They were redesigned as CC tubas, not as cut BBb tubas. The end result is a beautiful tuba with a beautiful sound. Workmanship and details are second to none. The beautiful sound is said to be something like 85-90% as "special" as the classic Alexander tubas. What in the heck does that mean?! It means that if you tried new and old side-by-side, you might notice a difference. Is there a difference 6 feet away? 50 feet away? No clue at all. And unless you plan to own and regularly play an old and a new Alex, just pick one and move forward. You'll forget all about the other.
-- I haven't seen any new 163 BBb's. Perhaps some German friends will be able to help out, there.
-- The only new 164 BBb that I've seen is this one, which was bought from Horn Guys new, and later sold through Brass Ark. The price on this was very fair, and I absolutely wanted to buy it... but showed up a little late, and someone else lucky got there before me. I believe the previous owner was Mark Horne... who is here on TF. I believe he also has a newer Alex 163 CC as well.
^ This photo is from the Brass Ark website, I hope Noah won't mind me posting it here. It's a gorgeous tuba. My own Alex 163 is nice looking, but has none of the extra engravings and bling. Not a complain, but the artwork is beautiful.
Hope this helps, Bill. Maybe so, maybe not. But I'd expect the new Alex 163 CC's to be difficult to find now, and possibly even harder to find as time goes on...? Good luck!
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 am
by Doc
It helps a bunch. Maybe those folks can chime in here.
If I think about buying a lottery ticket sometime this decade, and I win
, I will be acquiring a number of tubas. A couple of Alexanders would be in the mix. But, of course, I have to buy a ticket. But first, I'd have to care about buying one.
Aside from that, I'm not in the market for one, but then again, I never totally dismiss the idea of the right tuba at the right time with the right deal.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:15 am
by matt g
Every time I hear Michael Lind play, I want an Alex F.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:51 am
by Rick Denney
matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:15 am
Every time I hear Michael Lind play, I want an Alex F.
Every time I hear Michael Lind play, I want to be Michael Lind.
Rick "betting he would sound just as awesome on a classic B&S" Denney
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 pm
by Doc
matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:15 am
Every time I hear Michael Lind play, I want an Alex F.
My first F tuba was an Alex. Michael Lind I did not become. But the upper range was about as beautiful as can be (as much as I could ever make it). I don't think I'd ever consider one at this point, but let me get my hands on one of those tenor tubas...
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:22 pm
by bloke
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 pm
matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:15 am
Every time I hear Michael Lind play, I want an Alex F.
My first F tuba was an Alex. Michael Lind I did not become. But the upper range was about as beautiful as can be (as much as I could ever make it). I don't think I'd ever consider one at this point, but let me get my hands on one of those tenor tubas...
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:04 pm
by bort2.0
I forgot, the other new Alex 163 I know was from binlove, he sold it a few years ago... It was all I could do to not buy it. Out of budget, but excessively pretty!
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm
by binlove
bort2.0 wrote:I forgot, the other new Alex 163 I know was from binlove, he sold it a few years ago... It was all I could do to not buy it. Out of budget, but excessively pretty!
It was a sweet tuba. I kept it for a while after I stopped using it just because I liked looking at it. But I can’t afford decorations that expensive at this point in life, so I had to let go of it eventually!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:50 am
by bloke
binlove wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm
bort2.0 wrote:I forgot, the other new Alex 163 I know was from binlove, he sold it a few years ago... It was all I could do to not buy it. Out of budget, but excessively pretty!
It was a sweet tuba. I kept it for a while after I stopped using it just because I liked looking at it. But I can’t afford decorations that expensive at this point in life, so I had to let go of it eventually!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
off-topic/somewhat related...
There's a gorgeous Miraphone 190 (kaiser B-flat...TALL/beautiful...45 years old) that isn't being played, but is AMAZING to see (mounted on the wall, resting in a Wenger tuba stand).
I won't sell it until I put a couple of slide-moving things on it (to facilitate the proper intonation of two pairs of pitches, and without adding any more valves). At that point (once all pitches are very easy to play in-tune) If I like it, I still won't be selling it.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:59 am
by Doc
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:50 am
There's a gorgeous Miraphone 190 (kaiser B-flat...TALL/beautiful...45 years old) that isn't being played, but is AMAZING to see (mounted on the wall, resting in a Wenger tuba stand).
I won't sell it until I put a couple of slide-moving things on it (to facilitate the proper intonation of two pairs of pitches, and without adding any more valves). At that point (once all pitches are very easy to play in-tune) If I like it, I still won't be selling it.
I said this previously at the other place, but I'll say it here...
If you eventually sell it, someone will get a really nice Miraphone. The intonation is already really good, so being able to easily adjust those couple of pitches would make it a slamdunk. Large, clear, resonant, projecting sound without being tubby or woofy, and responds easily. And it has that great Miraphone sound, except bigger. And the cherry on top is that it is in really nice condition mechanically and cosmetically.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:30 am
by bort2.0
Doc wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:59 am
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:50 am
There's a gorgeous Miraphone 190 (kaiser B-flat...TALL/beautiful...45 years old) that isn't being played, but is AMAZING to see (mounted on the wall, resting in a Wenger tuba stand).
I won't sell it until I put a couple of slide-moving things on it (to facilitate the proper intonation of two pairs of pitches, and without adding any more valves). At that point (once all pitches are very easy to play in-tune) If I like it, I still won't be selling it.
I said this previously at the other place, but I'll say it here...
If you eventually sell it, someone will get a really nice Miraphone. The intonation is already really good, so being able to easily adjust those couple of pitches would make it a slamdunk. Large, clear, resonant, projecting sound without being tubby or woofy, and responds easily. And it has that great Miraphone sound, except bigger. And the cherry on top is that it is in really nice condition mechanically and cosmetically.
I seriously considered this tuba when you first mentioned it to me a while ago, even though it's BBb. But a 45" tuba just doesn't seem like it'll fit into my car. And I've already been through one tuba that doesn't fit anywhere, and don't need to go through that again.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am
by Doc
bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:30 am
Doc wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:59 am
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:50 am
There's a gorgeous Miraphone 190 (kaiser B-flat...TALL/beautiful...45 years old) that isn't being played, but is AMAZING to see (mounted on the wall, resting in a Wenger tuba stand).
I won't sell it until I put a couple of slide-moving things on it (to facilitate the proper intonation of two pairs of pitches, and without adding any more valves). At that point (once all pitches are very easy to play in-tune) If I like it, I still won't be selling it.
I said this previously at the other place, but I'll say it here...
If you eventually sell it, someone will get a really nice Miraphone. The intonation is already really good, so being able to easily adjust those couple of pitches would make it a slamdunk. Large, clear, resonant, projecting sound without being tubby or woofy, and responds easily. And it has that great Miraphone sound, except bigger. And the cherry on top is that it is in really nice condition mechanically and cosmetically.
I seriously considered this tuba when you first mentioned it to me a while ago, even though it's BBb. But a 45" tuba just doesn't seem like it'll fit into my car. And I've already been through one tuba that doesn't fit anywhere, and don't need to go through that again.
Bruh... You just have to get a car to fit your tubas!
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:30 pm
by bort2.0
As I mentioned before, I can sneak a tuba in under the radar and do damage control on that later... A change in car... that's not going to happen the same way. A bass trombone seems even easier to slip in under the radar. Now we're talking about real trouble with the "smaller stuff"...
Oh, and not to mention, I really like my car! I'm not changing it just for some tuba!
(Not that the 190 is just "some tuba", but in a broader sense, I'm not changing the car for a tuba. Believe it or not, as many tubas as I've owned, I have only had a couple of cars in my lifetime. An old Honda that I borrowed from my parents in college, an Acura coupe that I bought from my aunt after college when I started work, and eventually, my current car. We bought it from a dealership, pre-owned and a really good deal -- the salesman was trying hard to make me buy something else, and my wife saw this car on the lot. He didn't want to sell it to us, but it was on the lot with a sticker in the window... sorry dude, you can't NOT sell it.)
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:00 pm
by Doc
I know, but I still have to give you grief.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:03 pm
by cjk
In 2014, I found myself in California with some free time. I was able to visit one of the Hornguys locations with my trusty tuner.
I played several Miraphones, a Gronitz or two, a Cerveny, and a new Alexander 163 CC. Of what I played that day, I recall preferring the new Alexander.
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:41 pm
by bloke
Who ever ended up with Dale Phelps’ sort of backwards(ish)-built recent-era Alexander C tuba?
...and who might have saved a picture of it, when he was advertising it for sale?
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:47 pm
by matt g
bloke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:41 pm
Who ever ended up with Dale Phelps’ sort of backwards(ish)-built recent-era Alexander C tuba?
...and who might have saved a picture of it, when he was advertising it for sale?
That’s a 173, right?
Re: New Alexander Tubas
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:18 pm
by bloke
yes...Thank-you.
Your knowledge allowed me to view a picture on their website.