TubaForum.net

yes...I sell new stuff from China.
As our nation rusts and crumbles, there isn't much made here, anymore.
Before getting into this, I'm not reaching out to the handful of collectivists who subscribe here, but only addressing the sensible.

========================================================

Regardless of how much money a school system has (as a significant percentage of funding of ALL school systems' funding is federal) waste costs everyone. Mostly, new federal spending is carried out with non-existent money, money is printed, inflation occurs, and a pound of the cheap grade of ground beef and a gallon of gas then end up costing $4 or more...soon $8...and - quite soon after than $16...(etc.)

It's time to stop "surplussing" sturdy, viable, good everything instruments JUST BECAUSE they are ugly.
Cases can be repaired, instruments can be cleaned up, straightened out, econo-refinished, and (as I've explained to MANY band directors) it's nearly impossible to "wear out" harmony woodwind instruments.

I'm not going to make this into a long post, but purchasing SILVER PLATED instruments (particularly if for marching) is ridiculous and irresponsible...for reasons I've outlined in the past, and "drum corps (which ORIGINALLY used CHROME-plated instruments - a finish more durable than either lacquer OR silver plating) do it" is an even more foolish reason.

Here's a THICK metal (was original lacquer, and I didn't buff away any metal) USA-made marching baritone with its original case. via negligible amounts of lacquer and buffing materials and some pro-quality wood glue (for the case) - along with my tools and skills - it's just about as good as it ever was...for a few HUNDRED dollars (economy overhaul) rather than a couple of THOUSAND dollars (whereby probably $300 - $900 of that went to Asia, the rest to mark-up, and (again) taxpayers were wrongly soaked. (The gold-tinted lacquer blends in better with the slightly-dark still-good 40-year-old lacquer on most of the valve section.)

"Children are our future."
Children deserve "good enough", because they've earned NOTHING.
All past generations of children either were handed "good enough" or (if their rulers weren't fooling enough to get them involved in pointless wars) "hopefully, good enough to survive".

"...but bloke, we can do better..."
YES, we can do better, by STOPPING WASTE (both epic public waste and - when many of us look in the mirror, I'd predict) personal waste.

"but bloke, there aren't that many people who do that sort of work..."
YES, that's a ANOTHER serious problem in the USA which needs to be fixed...but that's another topic...
...and ANOTHER serious problem is that public property is torn up (and with no consequences) in the first place...again: another topic.

I may have lost track of some of my time, but I'm pretty sure that this was only about a four-hour gig...
(please excuse fingerprints)

Bloke- I find myself in agreement with just about everything in your post.

As a former 1970’s drum corps alumnus, I can attest to the nearly indestructible quality of the chrome plating on the old bugles, along with the uniquely different tone quality achieved by an ensemble of brass in the key of G (a topic for another time).

As for Chinese brass instruments, I am now taking note of the fact that Czech instruments are aggressively undercutting the price of many Chinese brands. I met a local high school player recently who was playing a Cerveny 686 owned by the school. They could have done a lot worse for the money.

@bloke, agreed with restoring older horns of higher build quality. Problem may be in some areas, finding repair talent that is “up to snuff” is difficult. Even 30+ years ago in Tampa, there was a shop that was great to buy new from, and another where you bought good used horns and would get horns repaired. The “buy new” shop did not have a good repairman.

Had to hunt around in Orlando as well. The good repair dudes were always busy. What a concept!

Anyhow, even when parents buy horns, sometimes they don’t even treat their own money responsibly. Below is my own perspective as a parent.

My oldest daughter was started on a used Olds cornet that I mail ordered from Dillon’s for $150.

When she got older and better, I took her to Dillon Music (~3 hour drive one way) and had her play a bunch of horns. We picked a nice Kanstul copy of an old LA Benge for $700 or so.

Eventually, she needed an extra horn for marching, so I bought one of the old Yamaha YTR-2XX “student” models for $175 that was in great shape except the valves were lacking some compression due to use. The Kanstul was similar.

Both the Yamaha and the Kanstul were great horns but probably just worn out from playing, and both were far from new.

After playing those for years, I picked up a YTR-8335LAII (also from Dillon’s at solid discount) because it was the closest horn in design concept to her Kanstul (and the old Yamaha student model was similarly free blowing). I think it was right at $3000 new.

I could’ve jumped right from the Olds to the “Wayne Bergeron” model, as our family can thankfully cover those costs without burden. Instead, I took measured steps and kept her in the process. When she opened that expensive trumpet for Christmas a couple years back, she was embarrassed and didn’t feel she deserved it.

Running a bit further off the rails, I think a lot of kids are in band so that the parents can “round out” their children’s education for the imminent college application process. It’s a box to tick when the kid isn’t athletic or whatever to help them look better on paper. What seems like 100 years ago now, band was a “fun” option for me compared to home economics or wood shop. And it stuck.

Band and music programs are in a weird place now. I’ll admit that the cream of the crop regarding tuba players is really something nowadays. But for the signal gained, the noise has gone up as well.

Do you ever call the school back and ask them if they prefer to simply have you bash them up again?

Seems like that would save a lot of time/waste.

I haven't seen newer Czech Republic instruments - only old Czechoslovakian instruments from the '80s. In pictures, I can tell that the linkage is improved from the crap they used to put on them 40 years ago, but I still don't know whether they are any thicker than a half millimeter sheet metal as they were at that time. Whether it's a Yamaha 641 rotary tuba, a Czech instrument, or an American-made sousaphone made in the last quarter century, that thickness is just too thin for school use. The Czech Republic instrument people are probably going to be mad at me for saying that, but it's just the truth.

When I was in high school, we had Miraphone 186 BBb tubas from the early 1970s, along with brand new ones. I had a new one at school and the vintage at home. If anything, the older horn had more practice time and was a better horn.

Horns used to be taken care of. People had respect for items and made them last and things were made to last. We still use a microwave from 1989 every day. People are now used to a disposable culture, replacing with cheap when worn out.

Agree with Bloke here on the number of instruments that are scrapped and replaced that just need basic repair and care