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With today's technology, I'm just curious.

I have both, but when my phone is being used to make premium content for social media while I practice, the default answer is obvious.

Since I have a $15 tuner metronome that works remarkably well, I use it. It avoids risking having my phone fall on the floor, and it also avoids installing an app on my phone - which is always a trade off for from someone paying attention to my browser history who is trying to sell me something, particularly if those apps are free or stupid cheap.

I think it's just fine if someone tells me how silly they believe I am for making this decision for these reasons.

My opinion:

Your ear is the best tuner.

Mark

Mark E. Chachich wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:05 pm My opinion:

Your ear is the best tuner.

Mark

...as well as the best *fooler.

I use an electronic tuner to (continue to) strive to teach myself to hear (out-of-tune, but often necessary) equal temperament pitches.
- accompanying a piano concerto (which is a combination of equal temperament, combined with playing from 2 to 15 cents flat - the lower the flatter)
- playing a symphonic work with a prominent piano part (though most of those parts are right-hand dominant)
- playing a pops concert, which involves an electric bass and an electronic keyboard
- (rarely, but college children more often than most anyone else) playing tuba solos - accompanied by a piano
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*implying that it's pretty easy to sit in the back of the orchestra, play nice no-beats chords with the trombones, but with my (ex.) thirds-in-the-bass pitches grinding against the piano (supposed to be) unison pitch

...I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but "equal temperament" doesn't have much of anything to do with "tuning" (other than matching other pitches in equal temperament "tuning", and I really do use a tuner to continue to strive to learn/remind myself how those out-of-tune-yet-necessary intervals sound.

I use a tuner to calibrate my ear. If I play a note consistently out of tune, my brain normalizes it, and the “correct” sounds wrong.

It’s a much different listening process than playing in tune with others. I use a tuner at home when I’m the only pitch in the room. My ears can hear beats when playing with others.

Both skills are necessary, it seems to me.

I have an old Korg AT-12 which is still my favorite, only because I don’t own a strobe tuner.

Rick “tuner is off and set aside—often replaced by a metronome—when playing ‘music’” Denney

I've had to change standards to preserve my sanity. Helping out with the local New Horizons band, I just "assume" my pitch is correct because there is no pitch center. Local bands -- a bit better but pretty much the same; trumpets and bones play sharp. Horns are all over the place. It is very definitely not like playing violin in a regional orchestra, or with a piano.

Playing in tune is like the ol' precision vs. accuracy diagram:


Source: https://wp.stolaf.edu/it/gis-precision-accuracy/

Except think of it as "you're playing in tune" and "everyone else is playing in tune". I mean, in the "Precise, but not accurate" diagram what if one person was added as a red dot in the very middle of the circle. It doesn't matter if the needle on your tuner is right in the middle, if everyone else is playing exactly 20c sharp or something.

Beginner groups are not accurate and not precise -- just all kind of all over the place, but hey, there's a lot of stuff going on to play an instrument and you can't do all of it all at once right away.

I think most groups fall in the Accurate but not precise category, where they get pretty close to everyone playing pretty well in-tune, and calibrated to the same tuning pitch (which really doesn't matter, unless you're playing with untuneable instruments like a piano, mallet percussion, etc).

Accurate and precise... I don't think I've seen anyone do this better than Mnozil brass. There's only a few of them up there, but they are so completely locked in to each other, it sounds twice as loud/forceful than if there were twice as many of them (or whatever, I'm not trying to get into decibels and log scales blah blah)

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In short, I agree with @Mark E. Chachich. And as I like to say, you know what it's supposed to sound like.

If 49 people are tuned 20c sharp, and you're +/-0c nobody is going to care that you're "right", because you're going to be the one who sounds wrong. Hrmm... that sounds like intonation gaslighting? I'm outta here...

I annoy the hell out of everyone here (likely) by bringing up this topic so very often...

...but most "expert/professional" videos tend to be about absolutely every aspect of playing OTHER THAN playing in tune - because (well..) talking about playing in tune is boring.

The "I listen in order to play in tune" jazz:

"Listen" to old recordings of everything from top-drawer symphony orchestras to popular music to rock bands the best high school bands in your area.

Tuning standards have risen DRASTICALLY (compared to quite a few recordings from long ago - over the past half century,).

Pop singers such as (ex.) *Lani Hall - who ACTUALLY sang IN TUNE (and it was apparent - because she didn't rely on schmaltz to mask her shortcomings, as she had no shortcomings) caused our eyebrows to raise. Today, there still aren't too many like Ms. Hall, but "autotune" now exists.

*1967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXZpFOq0JOc
*1983 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwm1H0dxAKY



...THE difference in INSTRUMENTAL playing intonation standards between "then" and "now"...?? (and go ahead and pooh-pooh me...I won't rebut, because I've had my say)

consumer-priced convenient/accurate AUTOMATIC CHROMATIC electronic tuning devices - used as training devices and for reference

I recall (probably when in my mid-20's) being a "tuning snob"...I thought I was hot-$h!t, because everyone told me that I was a good tuba player, and I was able to tune a guitar (having taught myself what an E sounded like - as well as having taught myself how to temper the tuning of the strings - so as to play about equally out-of-tune/in-tune in most keys - as long as I had good/fresh strings).

...but I was WRONG...My (wind-playing) tuning actually SUCKED, which I discovered when (again) AUTOMATIC CHROMATIC tuners were first introduced to the market (ie. the equivalent of a 12-tone Stroboconn, except only $200 (a lotta dough - back then - and an exorbitant amount to pay TODAY - even adjusted for all of that inflation - for a good consumer-grade tuner, BUT WE BOUGHT THEM, DIDN'T WE?)...

...so I really began working hard on (wind-playing) intonation. I believe (know that) I still suck, but - since I try hard - I believe I don't suck quite so bad.

- Tuning intervals of unisons, octaves, fifth, (slightly more challenging) thirds, and sixths with others (by simply lining up pitches to avoid the acoustical interference) is not too difficult...ie. playing "IN TUNE WITH". but what is MORE difficult is to FURNISH the pitches for others (in tune at ref: 440, 442, or whatever is agreed upon), be where one is supposed to be (FOR THE OTHERS - and whether-or-not music is "tonal"), and to be able to (when required) play accurately in EQUAL TEMPERAMENT (where simply "getting the beats out of the sound" just won't do).

My community band always tunes to me, and nobody ever complains, so it must be right, right?