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Cool!

You don't see that every day.
Well, unless you're the person who owns it.
But I guess not for much longer, though.

Okay, actual helpful info...

The original string linkage appears to have been converted to minibal. From a distance, it looks like whoever did it, did a nice clean job. That's a pretty big deal upgrade for this tuba, and must have been pretty expensive, relative to the value of the tuba. To me, that's a possible sign that it plays well, got used a lot, and a previous owner didn't want to deal with string linkages anymore... but also didnt want to change tubas. I wonder why Carl didn't point that out?

That tune-any-note concept would have probably worked out, had he put that slide at the end of the mouthpipe - rather than way off to the player's left (awkward), and after the valves.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:31 pm
Okay, actual helpful info...

The original string linkage appears to have been converted to minibal. From a distance, it looks like whoever did it, did a nice clean job. That's a pretty big deal upgrade for this tuba, and must have been pretty expensive, relative to the value of the tuba. To me, that's a possible sign that it plays well, got used a lot, and a previous owner didn't want to deal with string linkages anymore... but also didnt want to change tubas. I wonder why Carl didn't point that out?

String linkages have long been considered by (some) trombone players to be superior to mechanical linkages. First, they are cheap and easy to service. Second, they are WAY quieter and smoother, and they also seem to last longer without failing. Even trombonists make the conversion away from string frequently, but it's not usually a real upgrade. It's often people who value newer over works better.

bone-a-phone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:03 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:31 pm
Okay, actual helpful info...

The original string linkage appears to have been converted to minibal. From a distance, it looks like whoever did it, did a nice clean job. That's a pretty big deal upgrade for this tuba, and must have been pretty expensive, relative to the value of the tuba. To me, that's a possible sign that it plays well, got used a lot, and a previous owner didn't want to deal with string linkages anymore... but also didnt want to change tubas. I wonder why Carl didn't point that out?

String linkages have long been considered by (some) trombone players to be superior to mechanical linkages. First, they are cheap and easy to service. Second, they are WAY quieter and smoother, and they also seem to last longer without failing. Even trombonists make the conversion away from string frequently, but it's not usually a real upgrade. It's often people who value newer over works better.

True, and I almost put "upgrade" in quotes because I thought of that too...

Two things to note:
1) If you are going to use string linkages, make sure you know how to restring them, in case something happens while you're out and about.
2) Dan Schultz used to have a whole page of Marzan photos, information, repair projects, etc. He moved his website to a different server a while ago, and the Marzan page hasn't been there since. I seem to remember him doing some project with the string linkages, because the strings kept slipping or something... that the design of these particular valves wasn't working well, or had worn out, or, who knows. I wish I could find that page again.

So fine, maybe it's not an "upgrade" necessarily... but I would think it's still a noteworthy project.

I played a slant-valve Marzan professionally for about 25 years. I stuck with the string linkages and had some very exciting on-stage moments when they broke. One complication is that the tuba has much heavier valves to move than a horn or ‘bone. You also have bigger, longer paddles putting much more pressure on it. I used bigger string, rerouted the string pathway, and still the things could go at the most in opportune time. They WERE wonderfully quiet, though!

A valve on a trombone gets used much less than a valve on a tuba, but I've had a string fail at the rate of about once a decade. If you have a reel of fly rod backing in your case, it takes about 3 minutes to restring a valve, and you can do it between tunes with only a screw driver and a pocket knife. I have more problems with my mechanical linkages on my bass. But yeah, I get it, a lot of people prefer the ball joints.

That’s a bucket list horn right there. I’ve always thought they are so cool! Especially the 5v C’s, it’ll be hard to find another one in that kind of shape.

How do Marzans play?

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:19 am How do Marzans play?

I played a C, 4 valve rotor one for about 45 minutes on it in a practice room some year ago.

It had extraordinarily even and fast response up and down, all the way to the extreme low register, like nothing else I'd ever played, which made it really easy to 'steer'.

I didn't the right tools to gauge the intonation characteristics with precision, nothing stood out but that doesn't mean things were great. Same goes for projection within an ensemble. The resonance sounded like a kind of a middle ground between fluffy (think Nirschl 4/4) or direct (think Miraphone 186) but I was in a small room, so it might have been fluffier than in reality than it felt in there.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:19 am How do Marzans play?

Solid.

Big 4/4 to small 5/4 size, nice classic American tuba sound. Piston and rotor sound the same, not really a lot of difference there.

I find that these don't have quite the broadness of a large American style tuba, but they have excellent projection, and are easily heard and do the job well. More like a gut punch than an earth shaker.

The BBb versions are known for better intonation than the CC versions, but I never had much trouble with the CC. Then again... I'm always skeptical why an on-the-fly tuning system is such an asset for a horn, because that says to me "we make slide pulling easy because you're going to need it." I only really pulled the main slide for low stuff, since it was a 4 valve CC.

The big Marzans were made by Boehm & Meinl, in Geretsreid. I believe B&M eventually became Nirschl, so there's some similar DNA across all of these. As an older and "didn't make a lot of them" tuba, expect a lot of handmade parts and all of the perks and quirks associated with that, and some variation between examples.

Marzan tubas used to be kind of a well kept secret, and you could get a nice German-made tuba for a pretty good price. But maybe this is just the 2023 inflation version of the "pretty good price" that I remember.

Did Willson make the piston Marzans?

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:49 am Did Willson make the piston Marzans?

B&M made all of the Marzan tuba lineup, iirc.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:49 am Did Willson make the piston Marzans?

Willson made the small piston tubas and euphs
B&M made the large tubas (piston and rotor)

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:34 am

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:49 am Did Willson make the piston Marzans?

Willson made the small piston tubas and euphs
B&M made the large tubas (piston and rotor)

I forgot about the euphoniums. And the smaller tubas.

The "big" Marzans are the ones to seek out. Many years ago, in Central Florida, a few of the BBb versions showed up. A local band director snagged one or two of them. They were quite good tubas, about as good as anything else available at that time (with pistons).

ETA: Good info here...

http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... 88#p322950

I never liked the Willson front-action comp euphoniums all that much, and - I'm thinking - the Marzan version was smaller bore, and not as resonant as the 2750.

I also found that (for me) front-action euphoniums and kaiser/rotary euphoniums) require a stand (adjustable stick, which rests on the chair seat).

As far as the tune-any-note feature (Marzan) version... useless/unwieldy. The tuba versions could be managed...

How is "water" collection with these horns?

TheHatTuba wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:58 pm How is "water" collection with these horns?

Looks like it should be quite effective. Then you turn it upside down for a few seconds, open the valves, and drain the whole thing.

jtm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:19 am

TheHatTuba wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:58 pm How is "water" collection with these horns?

Looks like it should be quite effective. Then you turn it upside down for a few seconds, open the valves, and drain the whole thing.

It was.
Worked like a charm!

I'm curious about that slant rotor setup, because it looks like it would be impossible for me ergonomics wise. Is that a layout that works for tall people with long arms? If I were nearby I'd drop by there just to see how that worked, but the regular rotor layout works so well for me I doubt this one would.