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I recently moved and as a band director, I dropped off a load of instruments for repairs. Yes, there are some I could have done myself, but I have a new baby and and was going to go there anyway...

They refured to work on a trumpet of my school's because its one of those brands that they "can't get parts for". Of course, all I wanted was for them to make the bell look pretty.

They are also the kind of place where I can't just say that I need this one thing soldered. It needs a cleaning and a slide alignment, but all of those repairs will cost more than what the instrument is worth and I should just go buy a brand-new, repair-shop-approved-brand instrument.

The string people were more generous and for $11, they supplied and installed 2 strings, set up the bridge, and set up the sound post on a violin.

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:24 pm They refured to work on a trumpet of my school's because its one of those brands that they "can't get parts for".

Must have been B&S

It was a brand that WWBW used to sell as their cheapest line

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:47 pm It was a brand that WWBW used to sell as their cheapest line

Which is why buying the cheapest instruments is counter productive in the long run.

DonO. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:53 pm

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:47 pm It was a brand that WWBW used to sell as their cheapest line

Which is why buying the cheapest instruments is counter productive in the long run.

The instrument plays fine, it just got dropped on the bell. Has nothing to do with which factory it came from.

' time to find another store...

Who has time for _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s ?

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We dropped off some stuff at a high school (an hour+ away) today.
There (sitting on a rolling shelf - next to the podium) was a school-owned (donated, likely) Accent trumpet that had a broken receiver Z-brace and slightly bent mouthpipe tube.
I HAD a torch with me, but no solder acid.
I DID have some large slide pliers with me.
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I straightened the mouthpipe, pliers-ed the brace to the bell, and melted the solder back together (n/c).

I also gave (n/c) the band director a new/good/knockoff Helleberg 120 (dead ringer) mouthpiece and a Jupiter semi-straight sousaphone tuning bit (to use on a 20K), because everyone (nationwide) is out of Conn necks and bits.

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We stopped at SEVERAL schools today, another one of those high schools had BORROWED four Conn 20K's (no necks, no tuning bits). I BORROWED (an EARLIER stop, today) a local university's (a faithful customer - for whom we regularly do repairs and favors for - stuff that no one else anywhere around here can do) ugliest spare necks that fit Conn (they have about eight spare necks, so I left them with their nicest four) and re-loaned the high school three old (good condition) Brazil-made Dynasty necks (which fit Conn) and one (the ugliest, but in good shape) genuine Conn neck...so the high school now has (no cost) FOUR Conn-fitting necks for the season - to return to the university after their marching stuff is over-and-done with. Tonight, I just ordered them FOUR sets of Olds/Reynolds tuning bits and had them drop-shipped (which also fit Conn) which should arrive at the school by Saturday. I added in roughly "profit" (total) for us on the FOUR sets of tuning bits (after cost and postage).
The band director told me that they're in transition, and ridding themselves (as are so many schools) of their (bought by some previous corps-jock band director, obviously) shoulder-mounts, and moving back to sousaphones. He's a tuba player (personally owns a Cerveny 4/4) I showed him a used JP that was in my car (smoothed out bell boo-boo's), showed him the pistons' fit, the nickel-silver slides' alignment, the nickel-silver bell connection parts, the included molded case, and he's going to order a set of those sousaphones from us.
This is a NEW school for us...so do you think they'll likely consider dumping the repair service they had been using: "sorry, but we're out of Conn necks and bits", and switch to us...?? (I believe they will.)

- FIVE schools
- one chemical supply place
- end of day: picked up our (both of us) prescription eye-wear that was ready (we arrived ten minutes after they closed, so they hung all six pairs on the front door for us (more excellent service, but someone's else excellent service)

We were out from 10:20 A.M. to 6 P.M.
Many people (including those from three other schools...at the first school - as an example, Mrs. bloke repaired a bari-sax (brought along tons of screws, and found a pivot screw to fit that school's off-brand bari), and I freed all the stuck slides on all the sousaphones) are happy, as a result of today's Odyssey. That (first stop, today) school is a nationally-competitive band program...amazing precision/amazing intonation/mature adult/professional-quality resonance - coming out of those students' instruments.

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:24 pm They refured to work on a trumpet of my school's because its one of those brands that they "can't get parts for". Of course, all I wanted was for them to make the bell look pretty.

There are SO many snotty, smug repair people. Where do they get off copping that attitude?

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:59 pm

DonO. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:53 pm

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:47 pm It was a brand that WWBW used to sell as their cheapest line

Which is why buying the cheapest instruments is counter productive in the long run.

The instrument plays fine, it just got dropped on the bell. Has nothing to do with which factory it came from.

I understand that. My point was that when these cheap instruments DO require parts, the repair people won’t be able to get them. That’s why they have a policy of not working on certain brands. Even if the instrument doesn’t need a part it will keep showing up in the shop and one day it will need a part that they can’t get. I can see that they want to avoid a scenario with a customer saying “What do you mean you can’t fix it? You fixed it last time!” And so forth.

I actually think parts availability and repair-ability should be factors that go into selecting instruments. Particularly school instruments. This isn’t always possible if the school district has a “accept the lowest bid regardless of brand” policy.

Why cant they be reasonable. If they can repair it, ok. If they cant repair it because they cant get the necessary part, just say so. Being honest about it should be all that's needed. No attitude, no ego, just the facts please..

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Grumpikins wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:53 pm Why cant they be reasonable. If they can repair it, ok. If they cant repair it because they cant get the necessary part, just say so. Being honest about it should be all that's needed. No attitude, no ego, just the facts please..

@DonO.

That old argument is one that band directors have used for quite a few years now - to encourage their students to buy from the full-retail-price music store that's their big buddy. Things have changed very rapidly in a very short amount of time. Truth be told, there really aren't quickly available parts for any make, anymore. A whole bunch of manufacturers are saying 180 days on a freaking valve stem (really)...something they should always have in stock, and in a bin with about 400 of them in it. But no. So I figured out ways to repair crappy rotten aluminum valve stems. I might start turning them on the lathe if I have to...Something else I've been doing is hoarding - when I find out that commonly broken parts are available (new) in some significant quantity by a manufacturer...Just like everyone else, I'd much rather be at parts changer than a parts maker. I just don't see any glory in bragging that I made something in 45 minutes that I could have bought for eight bucks were it in stock.

Something else is that even the crappiest instruments - now - actually work pretty well. The $109 Walmart trumpets actually do play - whether or not people wish they did, along with $109 trombones and flutes and clarinets. They play. What's wrong with throwing one one of those complete instruments and a parts drawer, and buying another one - if a part breaks that can't be replaced?

If Yamaha can have plastic clarinets made in Malaysia and people are willing to spend over $1,000 for them, why shouldn't someone else be able to buy a similar clarinet made in Malaysia - or some other third world country - and pay $109 for it, whereby Walmart only makes $60 bucks off of it instead of $960 bucks?

I remember when grumpy old music store owners refused to carry Yamaha "because I fought the Japs in World War II, and I'll be damned if I'll sell any of their stuff in my store..."... then they unwittingly bought Vito and Holton instruments from the LeBlanc company in Wisconsin - which were made by Yamaha, but just painted with orange tinted lacquer. I'm seeing some really absurd downgrading in fit and finish of domestic instruments - the few that are still made - and problems that are just as bad as the problems that people have been talking about with the really large Chinese factory that people love to hate.

So I'm not arguing with you, but I'm just telling you how it is, and that things have changed quickly. The people who are still going to be able to help other people are those who are more like the Cuban automobile repair people, who can make parts fairly quickly, or adapt parts to fit instruments they weren't intended to fit. Those who are little more than parts-changers - who call themselves "musical instrument technicians", wear imprinted stain-free aprons, and brag that they are members of the blah blah blah blah blah blah repair technician society) are not going to be much use to anyone.

It sounds to me like part of the issue is greed. I know that shops have overheads and costs to meet but some are also driven by having a wide profit margin too. I guess that’s always the way when the owner doesn’t do the work and it’s all just a commercial exercise or money making machine.

I had a good repairman who I traveled some distance too ‘cause his work was good and his prices reasonable. He got his accountant brother involved and his prices have really gone up, it’s not worth the drive to me so I’ll find someone more local and not buy an instrument that he could repair for me - he doesn’t need the work and without reasonably priced repairs there’s only excess costs to me.

Greed, there’s a lot of it about.

Dunno. I've met plenty of techs who strangely allow themselves a "god complex", similar to what happens to some medical doctors. Their opinion is the only possible correct one, and there's only ONE way to do things. And don't even think about taking your valves out yourself, or try to solder something onto your own beat-up ebay horn.

Hahaha.

Sorry, your instrument is junk. I'll give you $50 cash or $100 store credit for it towards a new one purchased through us......

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I only trust American brands that surely have parts available, like Distin, Vega, JW York & Sons, Keefer and Buescher.

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:24 pm one of those brands that they "can't get parts for". Of course, all I wanted was for them to make the bell look pretty.

Update: I just remembered that it was also missing the 3rd slide ring. Of course, if they couldn't get an OEM part, they could always remove the old ring box (what are those called?) and solder on a new one of any brand that they have on hand.

If you want to stay modest in the repair business, work for yourself.

Just about the time you become (generally) very very fast and very very good (often, using your hands to do a whole bunch of things - rather than always using tools - as you've realized that a satisfactory final result is the goal, and the process of getting there is not the goal), you're very very tired of doing it, and neither of these will matter to you.

As filthy as I am at the end of the day of working on a bunch of euphoniums or tubas or trombones or French horns (or saxes/flutes - which also bend and wear - and as bad as I stink at the end of the day, I just don't see how anybody could get the big head over that crap, unless they're really not fixing very much sh!t, and - mostly "posin' ".

All it really is is just a bunch of accurate grunt work. Matt Walters says that his job is cleaning spit out of tubas. I repair and clean a bunch of individual-owned instruments, but schools tend to have more money to spend, and they don't care - because it's not their money, but they don't want to spend it on cleaning spit out of the insides of things. They just want to spend it on getting things working again to send it out on the battlefield again and have it get all shot up again.

Also, if I'm fixing something up used to sell, I don't want to brag about all the work I did and how wonderful it looks and "you should have seen it before". People buying used things don't like to think about something being all beat up before they bought it.

I just don't see anything about any if this (above) which would prompt me to strut around like a rooster.

Another repair shop interaction that made me very angry...

I have a student with a beautiful condition, intermediate wood Yamaha clarinet (some kind of family hand-me-down, but it doesn't look like it was ever used. 2 of the pads split where it was like the pads were sliced even with the cup. I also noticed that there were dead pad bugs in the case and there were 3 additional pads that were partially eaten. I told the family to take it to the shop to get repairs.

He walks in a few weeks later with a used Allora (or something) plastic student model that they bought from the shop. They said it cost less than the repairs of the Yamaha. They said they would donate it if we could get it going. I happily accepted.

The clarinet finally came in and they sent me the repair list. It called for a complete overhaul: ultrasonic cleaning (is that even a thing for a wood clarinet?), replace all pads, key and tenon corks, felts. I replaced the two pads that somehow sliced off with the peal and stick kind from a repair kit the district just gave me and found that the 3 partially eaten pads still sealed fine.

$381 is the price that the shop told my student's family to do the repair. These people got scammed into buying a new clarinet.