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An orchestra I have subbed for multiple times over the years has changed the dress code for a couple of “grand series” concerts to be all black (black shirt, tie, and, pants, shoes, coat optional), even the conductor.

First concert series of the year, and the strings in particular, seemed and looked more relaxed.

I really hope this trend continues across orchestras around the world.

Dallas winds uses all black

Arlington community band uses tuxes

Tuxes are for people who ride on the running boards and care for the horses. They are called grooms, and that's why men wear them when they're getting married.

I have been wearing an awful lot of all black lately, but I honestly wouldn't mind dressing up just a little bit and wearing a black suit with a black dress shirt, a black long tie, and black dress shoes - particularly for classical concerts.

The only time I think all black makes sense is for a pit orchestra, one of those "orchestra plays the soundtrack while you watch the movie" things, backup to a headliner, etc. The stuff where you're supposed to NOT look at the orchestra.

What is "grand series"? Are these "less serious" concerts and thus less serious attire? The coat optional rule gets me. Seems amateurish.

Overall though, I hate the all-black-clothes look. Doesn't matter if it's dress clothes or sweatpants, it's just so depressing and heavy. It's not a funeral.

Every group I've played in for as long as I can remember has been black suit, white shirt, and a normal-style black tie (or tie optional). But that "tie optional" thing always bugs me too, such disorder...

But one thing is for sure, across all groups -- you have to remind people to not wear white socks with black pants and black shoes. There's always someone...!

I'm fine with a black suit and white shirt as well... with a long tie. I'm getting sort of tired of dealing with tails.

Don't play with any orchestras that ask for tuxedos, anymore. When churches suggest tuxes, the musicians gently suggest to the choir directors that we wear black suits with white shirts and long ties.

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:00 am I'm fine with a black suit and white shirt as well... with a long tie. I'm getting sort of tired of dealing with tails.

Don't play with any orchestras that ask for tuxedos, anymore. When churches suggest tuxes, the musicians gently suggest to the choir directors that we wear black suits with white shirts and long ties.

I played with a group for a cycle or two as a sub. At the end of a dress rehearsal, it went something like this

Conductor (guest conductor for the cycle... not American, I forget where he was from... Brazil...?) -- "black formal attire for women, and tuxes for men."

Man in orchestra -- "um, sir? we usually wear black suit, white shirt, and black tie..."

Conductor -- "yes, that's what I said. Tuxes for men."

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:56 pm

What is "grand series"? Are these "less serious" concerts and thus less serious attire? The coat optional rule gets me. Seems amateurish.

The Grand Series is the same as a masterworks series (so not a young persons, family, pops concert), though we played film scores and the Korngold Violin concerto. This was something the musician's committee got put in the contracts with management. Women traditionally wear all black to these anyways in some fashion.

When I see multiple people in tuxedos outside of a wedding, it is normally food servers at events. The only time where this was actually a dress code was when I played a high profile gig at the Greenbrier in West Virginia, where our morning rehearsal required to be in a suit, and for the event (or anything after a certain time), tuxes were required for all occupants of the resort.

I have a really nice tuxedo that is way too big on me now. I had a music friend who was working at a tuxedo shop and he let me have his employee discount on a higher end tux for what I would have spent anyways (wedding gift). Now that I have lost the weight, when I got called for an orchestral performance right when these performances were starting up, I had to get something quick. I was led to a website that does high school type tuxes, nothing very nice and they even feel cheap, where I change at the gig and don't wear it much. I am finding that I have to wear these less and less, and if I did need to buy anything nice, I would buy a set of tails.

I get from this that some of you dislike the tuxedo. Why? I don't spend much time in either, so there may be some issue I'm forgetting.

Bad things:

• the cummerbund is an extra article of apparel
• the typical shirt is hard to iron

Good things:

• bow tie, which is more comfortable and won't fall in soup
• normally worn with suspenders, which are more comfortable and functional than the belt

I've seen discussions of what type of shoe is correct with the tuxedo, but I'm going to assume rules like that are not relevant here. I note that the original post's rules make the jacket optional, which is a different question.

Is type of tie an option with your black shirt outfit - OK to show up with a bow tie? I guess it wouldn't be super conspicuous in any case. I assume the tie is also black. If the women are bound by the same rules, I suppose that's mostly cause for celebration for them, but long ties on women look kind of weird to me.

There's something about a black suit with a long tie that feels like clothes when worn, and there's something about a tuxedo that feels like a get-up when worn.

Black shirts.

Three Valves wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:10 am Black shirts.

yeah, but you liked the black hat.

We did the switch to all black in my community orchestra a couple years ago. There was a surprising amount of drama, but I guess some folks like their "ways things have always been." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Nevermind that the orchestra has only been around since 2010)

being redundant...but I like an all black look in the form of a suit with a long (black) tie.

Ties can also be ensemble-owned, and matching silver - which looks really sharp with a black suit, black dress shirt, and black dress shoes.

I believe it's OK-of-not-best for the entire ensemble to wear that (or whatever), rather than allowing some to wear long dresses (particularly with all that's been going on, lately).

Continuing in the "coat optional" vein, I suggest "tie optional". Women having to wear coat and tie is just weird.

donn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:53 pm Continuing in the "coat optional" vein, I suggest "tie optional". Women having to wear coat and tie is just weird.

We got one of them non-woke-haters here, folks...

I'm back playing with our coming orchestra again about five years since I last played with them. In that time they've grown to a group of 90 and switched from tuxes to all black. I don't mind either, though that was about the only time I ever wore my tux, anyway.

I've still got my same King 2341 with a Holton monster Eb bell on it. I'm sometimes wishing I had a bigger horn with as many people are in the group now...

i am just waiting for orchestras to get flashy matching jackets like brass bands. then we would be talking

As a student I joined a quintet named "The Five Ugly Ties".
Dress code: Black suit, white dress shirt and a tie befitting the group´s name.
Some were more talented in finding those than others.

After a few gigs, we invested in a set of MATCHING ugly ties, which we all got to keep after the group quit few years later.
Mine must still be somewhere in the back of my drawer, thirty years later...

Good times.

Men´s formal jackets are taylored using lining / upholstery to achieve a "social armour" look.
They look best (and they REALLY do) when the wearer is standing upright, arms hanging down.
Raise your arms (to dance, hold a plate of snacks, play a violin, whatever) and your attire will leave that perfect facon, look ridiculous and mechanically hinder whatever your desired movement pattern may be.

The more you raise your arms (think strings and flutes, here) the more that internal plating of rigid fabrics will get in people´s way.

From a practical standpoint, a thinly knit cashmere turtleneck (no jacket) could be declared "formal enough" for stage presence.
During intermission, one can still put on that suit jacket to join friends in the lobby for a chat and look sharp.