Marzan Tubas

[Charlie C Chowder]

I have the honor of owning two Marzan, one piston and one rotary. What little info, mostly on this and the other board, have little to say about the quality or the impact that these tubas have had. I did once see a slant rotary Mariphone on E bay once, but little else. One tuba board posting said that there were only two hundred of the large tubas made. I love what I sound like on both, and the piston sounds American with the rotary being very European, or as I like to say, one for wind band, one for string orchestra. Both are great with the Banjos.
What does the tuba world think about the Marzans and their value?

CCC

[bort2.0]

Dan Schultz had an excellent website with a reference-level page cataloging and detailing many Marzan tubas. He never made his way from the old board to this one... And his website doesn't have that page anymore. As I understand it, he has to change from an old website host to a new one, and as an old guy with other interests, he just hasn't rebuilt the site.

Overall, these can be really nice tubas, made in the early 1970s. There were two sizes, medium and large, in both BBb and CC (and I've even seen an Eb)... The large ones (both piston and slant rotor) were made by B&M in Geretsreid Germany... B&M would later become Nirschl. The medium ones were made by Willson in Flums, Switzerland. Two heavy hitters in the quality department, so they are well made instruments.

The BBb is generally regarded as having better intonation than the CC; it was designed in BBb, then cut to CC. I think they were all pretty good, and although I haven't played a ton of them, none of them were bad. If anything, I would say that if you compare the tolerances and construction consistency to modern tubas, you're going to find some differences. For example, when I had a valve alignment done on my CC, I was told that the valves and the ports did not completely align perfectly, which was normal for instruments of the time, because of the way that they were manufactured. Today, everything is computerized and done with extremely high tolerances, so we don't get those issues anymore. I'm sure that's correct, but for a player like me, I don't know what kind of difference it really made, lol.

In general, I think that they're really nice playing tubas and have a great sound. For me, they tend to play a little bit brightly, with a really really strong projection. So it's not quite a seismic experience back there, but the sound goes way out front quickly, and cuts through very well. It's not to say there's no presence, but you're not going to fool someone into thinking you have a 6/4 York back there.

In my limited experience, I've also thought that the piston and rotor versions sounded much more similar than different. The body and the bell of the tuba are identical between the two just the valve sections are different. To me, the difference in the rotary versus tuba sound is not because of the type of valves, because of the shape of everything else.

In terms of value, they generally are on the low side. I got mine about 15 to 20 years ago, and really didn't pay very much for it. I think that being a lesser-known brand helps keep the prices down, but also I just don't think that they were very popular to begin with. They were sort of a sleeper, being a well-made European tuba that played well and sounded well.

These days, the 4/4 CC (and I guess BBb too) market is so flooded with Chinese tubas of varying quality and low prices, and German-made tubas of higher quality and higher prices, I don't think the Marzan tubas necessarily hold their value so well either, except for the fact that they're older, becoming less common still, and have that vintage kind of factor associated with it now. I think the notion of what an old tuba is has changed, and what it means. These tubas are probably about 55 years old, and that is a different thing for us now. That is, if it was 1980 and you bought a 55-year-old tuba, you're buying something really old from a totally different time in tuba construction. But being in the 2020s and buying something 55 years old has a different meaning now. In the 1970s, things were pretty well figured out, and although not as perfect as they are today, still much farther along than they were in the 1920s and 1930s.

Anyway, all that to say, I like these tubas, I like the way they look I like the way they play and I like the way they sound.

Post some pictures of them? Please?

[Sousaswag]

Love-love-love the BBb slant-rotor models. I’ve played 3 of them and I think they’re great.

The tuning slide up top claim to fame helps pitch on those horns, which I never thought was that bad to begin with.

As they age they’re harder to find in great shape which has kept me from purchasing any. That, and I don’t really *need* it, either.

If you find one for $3K or less, I’d say you’ve done pretty well.

[PlayTheTuba]

I know Miraphone made still lists the 289 slant-rotor with 4 or 5 valves. And the website you can get that tuba silver plated and gold brass as an option. But I've only tried yellow brass lacquer ones, as far as I know.

But I have also tried the Marzan slant rotor BBb too but to me underneath the bell it sounds and plays differently than the Miraphone 289.

The Marzan sounds nice but I really like the Miraphone 289.

I wonder if people don't like the angled rotor valve section as much due to a higher center of gravity? Ie more top heavy, especially for the 289 since the valve tubing points up instead of down like the Marzans do.

Or maybe most people angle their tubas a lot when holding already? Making the angle of the valves more uncomfortable?

Could be harder to manufacturer too, which is why not many make valve sections like that to begin with. At least those are my thoughts.

[LeMark]

i tend to always angle a tuba to get the leadpipe higher, and I love angled valves sections to reduce strain on my wrist.

[bort2.0]

If you find one for $3K or less, I’d say you’ve done pretty well.

That's also the downfall of these... If they cost more -- even though they might be worth it -- there are a LOT of options in that price range.

A tuba that needs the right buyer.

[pedaljay]

I had the opportunity to have piston BBb Marzan back in the day. It played very well in tune and had a very distinct sound. I really wish I would have kept it, but a York BBb came up for sale and I needed the $$$. That being said, I was surprised that they don’t hold their value. In my opinion you get so much more horn for the price than other similar horns.

Best.

Jason

[Sousaswag]

If you find one for $3K or less, I’d say you’ve done pretty well.

That's also the downfall of these... If they cost more -- even though they might be worth it -- there are a LOT of options in that price range.

A tuba that needs the right buyer.

Right. Like you said, when the option is a 50 year old horn with some wear or something shiny and new with modern tolerances, most people will choose the new horn.

People like me would pick the Marzan for the nice European quality and cool-factor... And they play nice!

Great horns for high school kids, budget-minded individuals, collectors, really anybody. I wish they were more popular.

[bort2.0]

Marzan euphoniums are also

[Charlie C Chowder]

I guess I'm the right buyer then. As a short old fart who cannot reach the fourth valve on most piston front tubas I was overjoyed when I tried the Marzan solo. And i got it for a good price. I was really surprised to find myself playing "Stars and Stripes for Ever" when noodling at home. But the sound just says "Sousa, Sousa!". I was happy to finally have a four-valve piston front tuba. I have lusted for a 286 since my first year in college. Got one finally after I retired. Now I had a four-valve tuba from both camps. Then I found a slant rotary at Beacocks in Vancouver WA. The play test was great. I paid way too much. But as I did not need two rotary four valves, I sold my 286. She was prettier, but the Marzan has a better sound. And the slant seems to fit me better. My favorite is still the 6/4, three valve on top, with a 26-inch recording bell York. With a receiver that is huge. Thus, the mouthpiece will not go into any other tuba. And I do not need to save for my retirement anymore as it is already here.

Of course, I have to buy my wife toys too,
CCC

[GC]

A university grad who subbed with the local Brit brass band several years back had a silver, large, piston-valve CC Marzan that he made sound great. He had picked it up a couple of years before and couldn't recall the source; it was in superb condition. He let me play it for a few minutes, and it was one of those heavenly horns that is one you will remember the rest of your life. I've played one slant-rotor Marzan, and I liked the piston horn much better; admittedly, two is too small a sample to make any judgments about Marzans in general. I just know that particular one is one of the best horns I've ever tried.

[edfirth]

Boehm and Meinl built some York Master Model horns(the .750 piston valved ones) that were Extremely similar to the corresponding Grand Rapids Yorks. I owned a 4+1 silver Marzan that was put together for Connie Weldon at the same time I had aYork Master Model here and they were just about the same horn. The bells, bell screws, spit valves, you name it. I played a quintet job and the horn player asked what I was playing on, his name was Don Haddad, yeah him, and we talked about the horn a bit. About two weeks later I got a phone call from Fred Marzan, very personable guy, and he told me that particular horn was "best in breed{" It played well in tune and made a beautiful sound. So, I think the Marzrn .750 horns are York descendants in a way. Only blew on a couple of the rotary ones and they didn't do it for me, although Fred's personal horn was, it would seem, the template for them. It's been pictured on here before, beautiful copper colored thing.I view the main tuning slide by the left hand as brilliant although I realize that some would prefer to put a tuning jigger and spit valve on every circut. We had both the Marzan and the York Master in the same room as a Grand Rapids York of that model and they were almost identical. That's it. Best to all. Ed