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I had not noticed this before now, but Lee has the newer Lidl models that resemble some of the Cerveny models, notably the 603 and 784 BBb tubas.

https://tubameister.com/new-instruments/

I’m curious about the LBB701-4. Sounds like it hits a lot of my sweet spots

I played some of these at the US Army Conference last year and...

I have not played any of them. But if I was in the market for a NEW Bb tuba, the Lindl tubas would be my first stop.

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Czech rotors have always been good. They just needed to upgrade the linkage.
' thin sheet brass...??
Fine. Just don't smack it against stuff.
Fiddle players, bassoon players and such don't smack their instruments against stuff.

tofu wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:55 pm He’s got quite a range on the Lidl’s. Are these all new designs with the exception of the 3/4 which looks like the one I once bought from him years ago. Or are some of these Cerveny copies. I’m still unclear what in the heck went down there with Lidl & Cerveny.

He states on the website that the valves are even better. That’s quite a deal if true has before he thought the valves were even better made than Miraphone and the valves on the Lidl I once owned were indeed superb.

I see he is carry their french horns as well which I think is where they have made most of their money over the years. My understanding is they are big in Europe and very popular.

Lee told me the 3/4 701 is an original Lidl design, Cerveny makes nothing like it. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Moldau BBb is an original design also. And what a beautiful horn! But of course the 603 Piggy, 684 Bohemian, and venerable 686 designs are the
Lidl “versions” of equivalent Cerveny models. They don’t even bother trying to change the model numbers.

The 784 looks amazing, but I would have to try before I buy.

The new cerveny tubas I tried last summer were Painfully out of tune, even older established models. Maybe Lidl is better

I prefer rotary valves, so the Lidl 686 and 784CC, Miraphone 291 and Yamaha 861 are really the only horns I have any practical interest in. Sure... Mr.P, RM 50 and Tuono... but those will be (barring winning the lottery) forever beyond my price range.

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The Josef Lidl tubas are definitely getting some attention these days. I have sold every BBb I had in stock, and am waiting for another shipment that hopefully will be here in about a week. Two instruments of this next order are already sold, a Moldau Deluxe BBb and a rose brass flugelhorn.

The Lidl LBB 701 is an instrument that really has no equivalent on the market today, which is why I'm selling more of these than any other model. The Lidl Company went bankrupt circa 2017, and was reorganized under the umbrella of Arnold Stoelzel Holding Group of Wiesbaden, Germany. The CEO is a young conservatory-trained low brass player who is committed to building only high-quality rotary-valve brass instruments.

On the long, long drive to ITEC in Tempe with Lubos Havlaty, CEO of Lidl, I asked every question that I could think of. One was, "If Josef Lidl is not
using old Cerveny tooling, how are you making instruments that look almost identical to Cerveny models?" The answer, eventually went back to the end
of WWII. Following the war, Communist occupation saw all industry being taken over by the government, or nationalized. Josef Lidl & V.F. Cerveny were taken over, and the remnant in Graslitz that had not escaped to the West were combined and named Amati, after an old Italian string maker. Amati was put in charge of all Czech instrument making, and during the communist era, I'm told that each of the three factories had the same set of tooling. This would explain why that the stencil "Sanders" tubas sold by Fred Marrich varied from time to time. In theory, they could have been made at any one of the three factories. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Czech Republic had elections, and formed a new government that sought to make reparations and privatize industry once more. A descendent of Josef Lidl was found, and he got the ancestral factory. No descendant was found for Cerveny, and Amati was a communist invention, so Amati/Cerveny was privatized under the same leadership. So, that is how Josef Lidl became an independent maker again at the end of the 20th Century.

They were reknowned for their double french horns, which I am now stocking, and they are really nice. In the early 2000's, I sold some of their model 701 BBb tubas, and two CC tubas. I have asked about these CC's, and the Eb and F versions. The new Josef Lidl Company is very, very picky about intonation, and the CC, Eb and F versions of these apparently did not make the cut, so they are no longer in production. The kaisers are also out, as Lubos told me that, " they would have to be redesigned to really play in tune, and there is not sufficient interest in a kaiser rotor tuba to justify the immense time and expense to reproduce them as top-quality instruments. What they do build, utilizing 35 skilled craftsmen/craftswomen are quite impressive.

LBB784 Moldau Deluxe BBb at the army conference was really nice and purty too

Yes, the Moldau Deluxe LBB784 BBb is one tuba that I'm having difficulty keeping in stock. The Moldau Deluxe and the
LBB701 3/4 BB tuba are presently the two best-sellers. This may be beccause there is nothing else on the market like them.

If you have a BBb piggy, please bring it to the DC workshop

There seem to be a fair number of those Moldau models, if you factor all the combinations. Gold/yellow brass, with/without kranz, medium/large leadpipe, ... looks like the deluxe is a large leadpipe plus a 2nd valve trigger?

Which seems from my very poorly informed perspective like kind of an odd place to put a trigger. My BBb has a trigger, and I really need it specifically for a couple notes where the few inches it adds are either just enough, (Eb 1+4) or not really enough (C 1+2+3+4.) If it were on a valve slide, the very best it could amount to in principle is double the length of that slide, and in practice less than that - and I'd have to think of another way for it to help with that Eb. Of course I'm no pro, despite the verbiage engraved on my tuba.

@LeMark The BBb piggy is in the truck and will be at the conference. It's a very nice playing tuba. Of course, I may be a little biased as I thoroughly enjoy playing my Cerveny Piggy CC tuba.

I played a piggy exclusively for 20 years, and am now giving up CC tuba to become a BBb/Eb player. A BBb piggy would be an excellent choice for me

Lee Stofer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:27 pm Yes, the Moldau Deluxe LBB784 BBb is one tuba that I'm having difficulty keeping in stock. The Moldau Deluxe and the
LBB701 3/4 BB tuba are presently the two best-sellers. This may be beccause there is nothing else on the market like them.

For size, feature-set, and price, the 784 really seems to hit a sweet spot.

To be clear... Daniel Ridder sounds FANTASTIC on anything he plays. But the sound in this video... WOW! I really wonder how the 784 would sound in comparison? Or how the CC versions would sound in comparison?

I played a 684 at SERTEC a couple years ago... I remember being very impressed... but I wasn't interested in BBb tubas.

684 BBb compared to 784 BBb... difference is pretty subtle listening online through headphones. But, again... I think this horn sounds WAY bigger than you would expect, just glancing at it's physical size.